Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

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John Ruggero
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by John Ruggero » 10 Feb 2016, 23:06

Thanks, OCTO!

While Ravel loved to orchestrate his piano works, he did not orchestrate this piece or the other two in the set of "Gaspard de la Nuit." There is a certain kind of piano music that is very difficult to orchestrate, and I think that even Ravel was stumped by these pieces, which he intended to be the ne plus ultra of piano playing. But I have heard pretty good orchestrations of Chopin, whose music is also difficult to orchestrate, so maybe someone is up for the challenge?
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 11 Feb 2016, 05:36

My question is rather a dialectic one.
If we cut the LH into three clarinets they should have nested tuplets in order to coordinate with the upper voices.
1. tuplet 3 :4 : 2 :4
2. tuplets inside of it divided by (8 :1 ) + (7 :2 : 4 :2 ) + (6 :2 : 4 :2 )

And in Ravel's music these ratios should probably be omitted.
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by Callasmaniac » 11 Feb 2016, 10:35

I would put it to one clarinet (in A!) and edit the ending note octave up (or something - or give it to bass clarinet). Nested tuplets, yes but also edit slightly: up in 8 1/32's, the down 4 1/32 + 1/16 triplet and 1/16 sextuplet (these all inside a triplet). More practical and certainly easier to play in rhythm.

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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 11 Feb 2016, 11:23

Callasmaniac wrote:I would put it to one clarinet (in A!) and edit the ending note octave up (or something - or give it to bass clarinet). Nested tuplets, yes but also edit slightly: up in 8 1/32's, the down 4 1/32 + 1/16 triplet and 1/16 sextuplet (these all inside a triplet). More practical and certainly easier to play in rhythm.
My question was not orchestrational, but notational.
But if you mention clarinets, here is a typical ravelian solution, in three clarinets:
20160211_121411-1.jpg
20160211_121411-1.jpg (123.33 KiB) Viewed 4334 times
1 clarinet in A
2 clarinet in A
3 bass clarinet in Bb
Last edited by OCTO on 11 Feb 2016, 11:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by David Ward » 11 Feb 2016, 11:33

OCTO wrote:… … … here is a typical ravelian solution, in three clarinets:
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John Ruggero
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by John Ruggero » 11 Feb 2016, 13:49

Sorry I misunderstood your excellent point, OCTO., that the LH is actually nested tuplets within the RH tuplet. The measure is quite a sophisticated affair!

But you got me thinking about an orchestration of Gaspard and why it hasn't been done. Unlike Chopin, it is so orchestral in feeling in spite of its pianistic origin and could be an orchestral show-stopper. Maybe Ravel just didn't get around to it.
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by John Ruggero » 11 Feb 2016, 14:03

Callasmaniac's solution of 4 + 3 within the septuplet sounds like a very practical one and would help produce the effect of a gradual slowing down within the whole affair.

In an actual orchestration, the final LH sextuplet would almost certainly have to be an octave lower to produce the right feeling of ebbing away and because the B#'s, first and last notes of the 21-note group, is the bass voice dropping one octave to lead to the low bass note in the next measure.
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Re: RE: Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 11 Feb 2016, 14:10

John Ruggero wrote: In an actual orchestration, the final LH sextuplet would almost certainly have to be an octave lower to produce the right feeling of ebbing away and because the B#'s, first and last notes of the 21-note group, is the bass voice dropping one octave to lead to the low bass note in the next measure.
Yes. In my example is certainly is so (bass clarinet transposed).
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by John Ruggero » 11 Feb 2016, 18:54

OCTO, I am so sorry, I got "three clarinets" in my head, failed to see the B. Cl key signature, and read your clear indications of instrumentation to see that that was exactly what you had done.
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 11 Feb 2016, 19:09

John, you gave me idea to orchestrate Gaspard.
Tricky task but it could be done....!

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