Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

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OCTO
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 11 Feb 2016, 19:09

John, you gave me idea to orchestrate Gaspard.
Tricky task but it could be done....!
Last edited by OCTO on 11 Feb 2016, 20:00, edited 1 time in total.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by John Ruggero » 11 Feb 2016, 19:35

That would be wonderful, OCTO. And the Finale virtual premiere could be on this Forum!

Le gibet wouldn't be as difficult as the other two. Castantets in Scarbo, harps throughout...
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by Knut » 11 Feb 2016, 21:28

OCTO wrote:John, you gave me idea to orchestrate Gaspard.
Tricky task but it could be done....!
That is quite a puzzle, and I'm very curious to see how you solve it.
One question: Are you really going to keep the key of Ondine, as you did in your example?

OCTO
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 12 Feb 2016, 06:34

This is just an initial idea.
And it is quite a work, at least 3 months to complete this. I would need a commission for this.

Interestingly, I listened intensively that piece for many years ago, even tried to "play" (of course to check how it feels...), but now, listening when keeping in mind orchestration - it is so clear that his approach in piano writing is equally to his approach to write for orchestra.

I would simply say, ingenious and marvellous music. The Music.
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by Knut » 12 Feb 2016, 08:03

OCTO wrote:This is just an initial idea.
And it is quite a work, at least 3 months to complete this. I would need a commission for this.

Interestingly, I listened intensively that piece for many years ago, even tried to "play" (of course to check how it feels...), but now, listening when keeping in mind orchestration - it is so clear that his approach in piano writing is equally to his approach to write for orchestra.

I would simply say, ingenious and marvellous music. The Music.
No doubt! His piano music seems to almost always have orchestral colour in mind.

Actually, Marius Constant has already done an orchestration of Gaspard, published by Durand and recorded by at least the Lyon National Orchestra and Duisburger Philharmoniker.

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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by OCTO » 12 Feb 2016, 08:19

Oh....
Than there is no purpose to spend three months...
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by Knut » 12 Feb 2016, 08:24

OCTO wrote:Oh....
Than there is no purpose to spend three months...
Pictures at an Exhibition was orchestrated at least three times… ;)

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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by Peter West » 12 Feb 2016, 10:10

Knut wrote:
OCTO wrote:Oh....
Than there is no purpose to spend three months...
Pictures at an Exhibition was orchestrated at least three times… ;)
At least. I made the score and parts for the Ashkenazy orchestration (Boosey) a few years back.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by John Ruggero » 12 Feb 2016, 13:24

Drats. Anything that one can think of has already been done.

Wikipedia says that Gaspard was also orchestrated by the conductor Eugene Goosens in 1942!

YouTube has the Constant, which is good as orchestration and somewhat faithful to Ravel's style, but seems very heavy to me (so much brass) and lacks the magic. Somehow a masterpiece has become film music. Maybe it IS impossible to orchestrate this piece. What is left to the imagination in the piano version has become all too real with negative results, like a master drawing that has been colorized. I wonder what the Goosens sounds like.

But I can't imagine why this arrangement is not played more. Orchestras do John Williams. But I am glad that it isn't.
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Re: Composers vs Editors: A Helpful Addition?

Post by Knut » 12 Feb 2016, 14:37

I agree that the last two movements of Constant's orchestration are too heavy on the brass. In Ondine, on the other hand, the brass is used rather sparingly, but the orchestration still comes across as heavy handed at times, especially with regard to the dovetailing.

Interestingly, Constant translates the left-hand runs discussed earlier as dovetailed harp glissandos. Given my initial interpretation of the run as quite free and without any clear grouping, this solution makes total sense to me, even though I would have liked it to be a bit dryer/more pronounced.

While giving the opening polyrhythmic figure to three flutes is very beautiful, the 'sprinkling' of high pitched celesta just seems to obscure the rhythm.

Also, given the pedal indication, I was almost certain that anyone orchestrating this movement would feature harp harmonics on the very last solo theme. A solo flute, as in Constant's orchestration, seems a bit to obvious to me in any case.

In short, OCTO, I think there's definitely room for improvement in orchestrating this piece!
John Ruggero wrote:I wonder what the Goosens sounds like.
Le gibet has been recorded by Philharmonia Orchestra, but I definitely prefer Constants arrangement of that movement, despite it's faults.

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