Alignment of (double) whole notes

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erelievonen
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Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by erelievonen »

In most if not all music fonts, the whole and double whole noteheads are wider than the noteheads of smaller note values.
What is then the correct vertical alignment of whole notes and double whole notes against simultaneous smaller note values?

In hand-copied (not engraved) music, where there is some natural variance in notehead sizes, I assume the copyist would intuitively center-align all noteheads. Right?
In hand-engraved music, I have observed both left-alignment and center-alignment between whole notes and smaller values; this may be a question of house style. Regarding double whole notes, center-alignment seems to be predominant; indeed, if two voices are a third apart and one of them is a double whole note, center-alignment is a must to avoid collision.

Unfortunately, both Finale and Sibelius left-align all note values regardless of the width of the notehead (as at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 below), and offer no other automated options.
In the case of double whole notes, this looks quite ugly, and causes unacceptable collisions when two voices are a third apart (examples 5, 7, 9, 11).
In the case of whole notes against smaller values (examples 1 and 3), left-alignment of course causes no collisions, and this appears to be the norm in present-day computer engraving.
But why should whole notes be left-aligned when double whole notes are not? I think center-alignment looks more pleasing to the eye in every single case.

Moreover: if whole notes always had to be left-aligned but double whole notes not, it can cause inconsistency. (For example, would you choose the alignment of example 12 or 13, if whole notes happened to be present in other voices?)
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DatOrganistTho
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by DatOrganistTho »

I imagine there will be two camps that fall into place for this discussion:

The first will be those who go for "optical importance" and will say that it is more important that the optical alignment lead to something that will not disrupt the reading of the line, which would mean things are centered rather than justified left.

The second will argue for a more "philosophical" importance, where they will say that it is more important that the "clarity" of the note in it's beginning be established, and thus justified left. This gives precedence to the minutiae of sight-reading and general reading which, though it seems more clumsy, would actually lend itself to better reading in the long run.

I don't know which one to agree with, honestly.

FYI, here's LilyPond's default; it seems to align left.
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by tisimst »

DatOrganistTho wrote:FYI, here's LilyPond's default; it seems to align left.
It's not exactly "left-aligned". The glyphs in LilyPond fonts are encoded such that the vertical short stems are farther left than the left side of the notehead itself. The SMuFL standard allows the same thing.


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DatOrganistTho
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by DatOrganistTho »

tisimst wrote:
DatOrganistTho wrote:FYI, here's LilyPond's default; it seems to align left.
It's not exactly "left-aligned". The glyphs in LilyPond fonts are encoded such that the vertical short stems are farther left than the left side of the notehead itself. The SMuFL standard allows the same thing.


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True, which is why I said "seems..." because it definitely isn't center ;P
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by tisimst »

Sorry. They ARE left-aligned, but the stems are ignored. So, it's the normal notehead parts that are aligned. That's what I meant to say.


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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by DatOrganistTho »

tisimst wrote:Sorry. They ARE left-aligned, but the stems are ignored. So, it's the normal notehead parts that are aligned. That's what I meant to say.


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Understood.
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by erelievonen »

It was the alignment of double whole notes in particular that prompted me to open this thread. I could now draw these conclusions:

If we assume that whole notes and smaller values are left-aligned (as seems to be the norm these days), then a good alignment of double whole notes is somewhat dependent on the particular design of the double whole note's glyph.

Looking at the double whole note (of the modern oval type) in Lilypond's font, it is obvious how a whole note should be aligned with it. Consequently a half-note should be left-aligned with the whole-note element, i.e. ignoring the vertical lines. Or, in other words, the half note is aligned with the inner edge of the double whole note's left vertical line.

This principle could then logically be applied to the rectangular double whole note shape: smaller values should be aligned with the inner edge of the left vertical line. (This probably means, in most fonts, that a whole note becomes nicely centered over a double whole note.)

The oval double whole note design of Maestro, with its doubled vertical lines (as in my examples), is much more problematic, as the inner vertical lines are fused with the whole note element, so that the above-mentioned principle were cannot be nicely and consistently applied, without causing either collisions when voices are a third apart, or inconsistency of placement regarding whole notes and half notes.

I don't really like Maestro's oval double whole note design anyway, with the double vertical lines. I think the one with single vertical lines, as in Lilypond's font, is better.
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by tisimst »

FYI, Lilypond has the double-stemmed variant as well, just as a separate style.


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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by OCTO »

This is MuseScore 2 default, which I prefer:
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erelievonen
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Re: Alignment of (double) whole notes

Post by erelievonen »

Ha! So MuseScore is centering the double whole note and the half note. I like how that looks.
But how does MuseScore align a double whole note and a whole note; and whole note and a half note? Left-aligned or centered?
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