Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
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David Ward
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by David Ward » 17 Aug 2016, 16:04

Thank you. I'll report back later.
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rikichi
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by rikichi » 17 Aug 2016, 20:29

OCTO, you might not realize, but you have been of invaluable help to me. The last post by David Ward and your corresponding answer (with example and file included) touched on another issue that is also important for my composition, so thank you for your time, advice and generosity.

You see, it's funny what you say: Many aspects of composing is "visualisation" of the sound (yet NOT in positivistic way, rather metaphysical!). Indeed, I agree with this insight, and it so happens that this particular composition that I'm writing attempts to establish a method of "visualisation" of music by producing musical gestures, phrases and structures that stem from a visual basis. I hope I will be able to pull this off, because I don't have much time left; however, much of my struggle up until now was coming to terms with notation—I was trying different approaches, starting with the experimental, graphical, and quasi-calligraphical to convey this idea of communication between the visual and the aural.

So, after reading this forum I already have a notion about the way to go with this project, and I realize that with "conventional" notation it is already possible to achieve my goal without resorting to overly complex note and symbol arrangements; but rather to simple, elegant solutions and a player-friendly approach to notation. I should mention at this point that I'm a student at a local music composition course, and never up until this point I had grasped these particular minutiae of musical composition, haha!

PS: Will try to see if I can use these fonts with Sibelius and report back.

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OCTO
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by OCTO » 17 Aug 2016, 21:21

You are most welcome.
You can check this for your ideas about grace notes and more free notation.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185#p3157
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35#p451
and
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37#p511 in Finale
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37&start=10#p562 in Lilypond ( challenge-one.pdf )

The mostly problem new composers are faced is composing in Finale or Sibelius, since many of these things you cannot find out directly in the software, but only by using paper and pen first.

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David Ward
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by David Ward » 17 Aug 2016, 21:39

OCTO, I've just tried the wave font and it works perfectly my end (in Finale 2014.5). Just what I need: many thanks.
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by rikichi » 18 Aug 2016, 14:18

Thanks again OCTO, there's much to learn from those posts. And yes, I agree that composing with Sibelius/Finale is not at all fluid, but it's hard to break the habit. Also, these programs do allow some learning and experimentation, for instance, with rhythms.

The wave font is amazing! Confirmed that it works in Sibelius 7.1.3 build 77. Cheers!

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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by David Ward » 30 Aug 2016, 09:54

The screenshot shows font DJZ-wave no 2 in use in Finale for the trombone's wide slide vibrato (and font OCTOwah is used for the +o combo in all the brass parts, which keeps the symbols together more easily than the Finale default). I can see my regularly using DJZ-wave nos 2 & 3 in sequence as a simple way to indicate widening or narrowing of exaggerated vibrato (see OCTOs earlier example). My possible use of 1 & 4 would probably be rarer.

(Tempo =56.)
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by OCTO » 01 Sep 2016, 15:00

Good to know!
In my scores the default Engraver font looks bad, but in your scores it looks always very good, I am not sure why!

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John Ruggero
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by John Ruggero » 07 Sep 2016, 17:50

Returning to the OP.

The slash originated as an alternative to writing two flags on a single 16th -note appoggiatura or acciaccatura when an 18th century printer had only a small eighth note in their font. Later, it came to mean an acciaccatura (a note played as fast as possible and crushed into the main note) to distinguish it from the measured-out appoggiatura.

For this reason, I think that a slash should only be used for small notes that are to be played as fast as possible, i. e. like acciaccaturas. Groups of free notes notated as small notes need no slash, because small notes in themselves mean free rhythm, as we see throughout the standard repertoire.

The use of a slash through large notes is a new notation that needs a clear definition. One wonders if this notation isn't the result of confusion about the meaning of the slash through groups of small notes. One also wonders if it is really necessary since there are other ways to show free rhythm, i. e. small note-heads.
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Callasmaniac
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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by Callasmaniac » 08 Sep 2016, 08:19

At least in Mozart's time, the slash WAS the way of writing a solitary 1/16-note (appoggiatura or not) - see the facsimiles at NME for examples. Same with Rossini and (early) Verdi.

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Re: Meaning of a big slash through a note's stem and beam (contemporary works)

Post by John Ruggero » 08 Sep 2016, 14:11

Callasmaniac said:
At least in Mozart's time, the slash WAS the way of writing a solitary 1/16-note (appoggiatura or not) - see the facsimiles at NME for examples. Same with Rossini and (early) Verdi.
Sorry, Callasmaniac, I am not sure if you are reinforcing what I just said or differing with it!

Are you maintaing that the slash was the ONLY way of writing a 1/16th appoggiatura (or acciaccatura) during the 18th century? If not, I apologize. If so, I don't think you are correct. Some publishers of the time did possess small 16th notes in their fonts and didn't use the slash. Here is an example from the first edition of Bach's Goldberg Variations:
Bach Goldberg Appoggiaturas.jpg
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Again, I am sorry if I am completely missing your point.
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