Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

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NicholasG
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Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by NicholasG » 03 Jan 2017, 14:43

In Samuel Barber's Piano Nocturne, measures 23 to 24. I'm not sure of the meaning of the Bass slur (See below).
Attachemnt 1.png
Attachemnt 1.png (292.14 KiB) Viewed 2408 times
Wouldn't this slur (See below) have the same meaning?
Attachemnt 2.png
Attachemnt 2.png (252.35 KiB) Viewed 2408 times
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Knut
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by Knut » 03 Jan 2017, 18:12

Yes, the two slurs have theoretically the same meaning, but a double segmented slur is most appropriate to clarify the phrasing in conjunction with the clef change. This may be a matter of taste, but it's fairly standard practice. Check out Debussy's preludes for numerous examples.

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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by NicholasG » 03 Jan 2017, 22:24

Thank you, I will.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by John Ruggero » 04 Jan 2017, 18:25

One such case occurs on the last page of Prelude 5 from Book 1 of Debussy's Preludes:
Debussy S-slur.jpg
Debussy S-slur.jpg (39.38 KiB) Viewed 2345 times
To expand on Knut's astute comment, Barber is concerned about the player making a good legato line at a place where there are things going against it: the leap of a ninth places the thumb on a black key followed by the fifth finger on a white key, which is awkward, and the clef interrupts visually. Unfortunately, the S-slur cannot be graceful like the Debussy. in fact, it is absolutely ugly in the Barber original edition.

Nicholas, G, if that is Dorico, can the S-shaped slur be made to look more like the original, or maybe even better?
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tisimst
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by tisimst » 05 Jan 2017, 00:59

John Ruggero wrote:Nicholas, G, if that is Dorico, can the S-shaped slur be made to look more like the original, or maybe even better?
(Sorry, I'm not NicholasG, but anyways...)
Dorico' slurs can be advanced as you want, including flat. So, making a slur as nicely shaped as the original should be easy for someone with an eye for details.

BTW, pretty sure that image didn't come from Dorico, but Finale... I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time. ;-)
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by NicholasG » 05 Jan 2017, 12:18

tisimst wrote:
John Ruggero wrote:Nicholas, G, if that is Dorico, can the S-shaped slur be made to look more like the original, or maybe even better?
(Sorry, I'm not NicholasG, but anyways...)
Dorico' slurs can be advanced as you want, including flat. So, making a slur as nicely shaped as the original should be easy for someone with an eye for details.

BTW, pretty sure that image didn't come from Dorico, but Finale... I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time. ;-)
Yes, that's from Finale. I would usually use Illustrator in such cases. I tried to do it in Dorico but my free trial was up before I could finish.
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tisimst
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by tisimst » 05 Jan 2017, 23:03

John Ruggero wrote:Nicholas, G, if that is Dorico, can the S-shaped slur be made to look more like the original, or maybe even better?
(Sorry, not NicholasG, again)
Here's the Debussy snippet in Dorico with a 2-segment S-shaped slur (all slurs have been manually adjusted, but with better starting settings than the default):
debussy-s-slur.png
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DatOrganistTho
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by DatOrganistTho » 06 Jan 2017, 05:32

tisimst wrote:
John Ruggero wrote:Nicholas, G, if that is Dorico, can the S-shaped slur be made to look more like the original, or maybe even better?
(Sorry, not NicholasG, again)
Here's the Debussy snippet in Dorico with a 2-segment S-shaped slur (all slurs have been manually adjusted, but with better starting settings than the default):

debussy-s-slur.png
That looks awfully nice.

Is Dorico worth buying for things like this right now? Or are there some quirks that need to be worked out before I would consider buying it (I want to, but I'm uneasy about buying a version that is incomplete to some extent).
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NicholasG
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by NicholasG » 06 Jan 2017, 12:55

DatOrganistTho wrote:Is Dorico worth buying for things like this right now? Or are there some quirks that need to be worked out before I would consider buying it (I want to, but I'm uneasy about buying a version that is incomplete to some extent).
I decided that Dorico, at its present state, just isn't worth the cross grade price. There are just too many essentials missing at the moment. They spent a lot of time, in my opinion, on UI eye candy. A big disappointment to me is the Sibelius-style Note Input. Articulations, dotted notes, go in BEFORE the note is input. You cross the tee's and dot the eye's, not the other way around. I'll wait and see how Dorico evolves.
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Re: Please enlighten me on the meaning of...

Post by John Ruggero » 06 Jan 2017, 15:03

Here is the Debussy slur done in Finale. It is one slur only and further tweaking is certainly possible. Such slurs are not difficult in Finale. It is the less common ones as well as the ability to tweak slurs to get exactly what one wants that is the problem,
Debussy S slur.jpg
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