Slurs again

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
Schonbergian
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Re: Slurs again

Post by Schonbergian » 17 Aug 2017, 16:17

Looking at the proposed solutions here, I'm almost convinced that an S-shaped slur is the only way to make it look nice when the flats are added into the equation.

Knut
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Re: Slurs again

Post by Knut » 17 Aug 2017, 16:43

Schonbergian wrote:
17 Aug 2017, 16:17
Looking at the proposed solutions here, I'm almost convinced that an S-shaped slur is the only way to make it look nice when the flats are added into the equation.
The flats are no problem if you accept a slight back-bow in the slur. I would prefer it that way myself.

Knut
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Re: Slurs again

Post by Knut » 17 Aug 2017, 17:12

Here's using Finale, either with a conventional or s-shaped slur:
Skjermbilde 2017-08-17 kl. 19.09.57.png
Skjermbilde 2017-08-17 kl. 19.09.57.png (74.39 KiB) Viewed 1266 times

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OCTO
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Re: Slurs again

Post by OCTO » 17 Aug 2017, 18:30

Can Dorico cut slurs on accidentals?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 8 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 7)

Knut
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Re: Slurs again

Post by Knut » 17 Aug 2017, 19:00

OCTO wrote:
17 Aug 2017, 18:30
Can Dorico cut slurs on accidentals?
Yes, to a certain degree. It will cut through flats automatically upon request. Otherwise you'll have to manually reposition the slur.

Edit: Sorry, just realized that I misunderstood your question. No, Dorico can not cut slurs on accidentals. This is just as well in my opinion, as cutting slurs will hurt them. :)

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OCTO
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Re: Slurs again

Post by OCTO » 17 Aug 2017, 20:10

Cut or cross?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 8 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 7)

Knut
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Re: Slurs again

Post by Knut » 17 Aug 2017, 21:00

OCTO wrote:
17 Aug 2017, 20:10
Cut or cross?
I thought you meant cut.

erelievonen
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Re: Slurs again

Post by erelievonen » 18 Aug 2017, 11:54

I've been following the ongoing discussion... and wondering why everyone is so determined to keep the slurs above the left hand notes.

When there are two voices with different stem directions on one staff, it is standard practice to draw all slurs of the lower voice under the staff, and never in the middle of the staff inbetween the two voices.

In this situation, nothing prevents drawing the slurs below (all of the) left hand notes. Why should that not be the preferred placement?
(That would also eliminate any problems with accidentals.)

Knut
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Re: Slurs again

Post by Knut » 18 Aug 2017, 14:39

erelievonen wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:54
I've been following the ongoing discussion... and wondering why everyone is so determined to keep the slurs above the left hand notes.

When there are two voices with different stem directions on one staff, it is standard practice to draw all slurs of the lower voice under the staff, and never in the middle of the staff inbetween the two voices.

In this situation, nothing prevents drawing the slurs below (all of the) left hand notes. Why should that not be the preferred placement?
(That would also eliminate any problems with accidentals.)
You're absolutely right!

As stated above, I regarded it as optional which side the slur was placed on, and that this was certainly an option to avoid conflicts with accidentals. Upon reviewing a few scores, though, it's clear you're right about a strong precedence for the slur going on the note-side of the starting note, regardless of stem direction or staff placement. This also presents another reason why you would want to hide any rests following the initial note, which the slur would otherwise collide with.

Can't say exactly why I didn't perceive it as the best solution in this particular case, even if I didn't rule it out, but thanks for setting me straight.

benwiggy
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Re: Slurs again

Post by benwiggy » 18 Aug 2017, 14:51

So, more like the first example in my original post, but going even further beneath the first note?

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