Comment needed

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John Ruggero
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Re: Comment needed

Post by John Ruggero » 23 Mar 2016, 22:09

Harpsi, now that you bring it up, your obsession might just become mine. Actually my biggest obsession is the too-long arpeggio symbol.
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MJCube
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Re: Comment needed

Post by MJCube » 24 Mar 2016, 18:12

For the tuplet, more important than the number of notes is the speed. I would write 11:12 as 64ths with 4 beams, unless you make the notes cue-size (cf. Debussy Prelude II). In the latter case, no tuplet indication is needed if the beats are clear in another staff (which they are in the Violin).

The short tie between LH G-sharps is too high above the noteheads. The tips should be at the same height as the following long tie.

What John means about the arpeggio line being too long is that it should go alongside just the noteheads, not extend to the height of stems, accidentals or ties. Also, the wavy character is ‘cloned’ at the wrong vertical distance (too long), causing the line to appear thicker in the middle than at the ends.

I might have written the last beat in RH as simply a downward arp. rather than a tied grace note.

The beam-gap is too small. The double beams on grace notes on the small Violin staff are almost indistinguishable.

Was this music copied in SCORE or Finale? These are obviously SCORE music glyphs, but I’m puzzled to see the system-lock icon at the right, and poor alignment of upstem-flag on last grace note in RH. Does SCORE scale the staff lines to the staff size, as here? (I think it’s better not to.)

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OCTO
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Re: Comment needed

Post by OCTO » 24 Mar 2016, 21:25

MJCube wrote:The short tie between LH G-sharps is too high above the noteheads. The tips should be at the same height as the following long tie.
One thing none else mentioned, and I wanted to ask. I avoided to cover the ledger lines. What about now? I might return back to the previous version...
MJCube wrote:I might have written the last beat in RH as simply a downward arp. rather than a tied grace note.
It was a long time ago I composed this, 18 years, and I don't remember why I notated like this, but I assume that I wanted the grace to be played before the arpeggio.
MJCube wrote:The beam-gap is too small. The double beams on grace notes on the small Violin staff are almost indistinguishable.
That is right, what about now?
MJCube wrote:Was this music copied in SCORE or Finale? These are obviously SCORE music glyphs, but I’m puzzled to see the system-lock icon at the right, and poor alignment of upstem-flag on last grace note in RH. Does SCORE scale the staff lines to the staff size, as here? (I think it’s better not to.)
It is Finale using Vienna music font, and for the text Muzitex (find this on the forum).
The flag is just the zoom exposition that produces the false positioning.
Yes, the staff lines are scaled, and I don't like it neither. Only extra work in Illustrator can fix it.

For Ere and John as well, here is another version.

I might say - I have learned a lot from you all!
Open PDF and zoom it so much you wish.
MEPO_2014-v3.3.pdf
(145.61 KiB) Downloaded 93 times
Last edited by OCTO on 24 Mar 2016, 22:02, edited 1 time in total.
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OCTO
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Re: Comment needed

Post by OCTO » 24 Mar 2016, 21:47

OOOOPS!
I have noticed something strange in the file, and nobody has seen this!
Look at the 11-notes. Some are missing stem-through beams! Strange, I am not sure how I got it in Finale.... That is bad.
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erelievonen
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Re: Comment needed

Post by erelievonen » 24 Mar 2016, 22:05

This is indeed much better. The spacing of the 11-tuplet is much more pleasing now (the last 3 notes could be closer still to each other).
OCTO wrote:
MJCube wrote:The short tie between LH G-sharps is too high above the noteheads. The tips should be at the same height as the following long tie.
One thing none else mentioned, and I wanted to ask. I avoided to cover the ledger lines. What about now? I might return back to the previous version...
Yes, do avoid the ledger lines. Now the tie is where it should be!
Except that the end-point of the tie is too far right. It should be the same as the next tie (look at the beginning of bar 2).

To me the arpeggio sign is now a little too short, it does not fully cover the low E. One wiggle more should do it (and then centering it vertically in front of the chord).
The arpeggio sign is also just a bit too close to the chord. I think the distance between the arpeggio and the first accidental should be the same as the distance between the last accidental and the noteheads.

The grace notes in the violin part... It just looks somehow unsatisfying to have some of the grace notes with a different stem direction. I'd go for flipping the stems up also on the middle grace notes, and raising the beam above them. (Even now the beam is too low, because it almost touches the natural sign.)

A question: why do you use trill signs with small accidentals in the violin part, but trills with parenthesized noteheads in the piano part?

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OCTO
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Re: Comment needed

Post by OCTO » 24 Mar 2016, 23:08

erelievonen wrote:Yes, do avoid the ledger lines. Now the tie is where it should be!
It is better now or before?
erelievonen wrote:To me the arpeggio sign is now a little too short,
The problem is the font, or Finale, when I drag it drops a symbol that is much longer, if you understand? I cannot stretch it on micro level.
erelievonen wrote:A question: why do you use trill signs with small accidentals in the violin part, but trills with parenthesized noteheads in the piano part?
I think I used it only in this moment, when colliding with Db in RH, not necessary but I think that is why I used it.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Comment needed

Post by John Ruggero » 29 Mar 2016, 21:32

Sorry it has taken me a while to respond to your second version, OCTO.

It is much, much better. Just a few little things:

1. There still seems to be missing arpeggio symbol for the second measure, second beat chord; unless you want it non arpeggio or semi-non arpeggio, which is another story.

2. I agree with Ere about the arpeggio sign on the third beat chord. Add one more little squiggle and then center the entire symbol between the outer notes, even if the symbol extends out a little to far; that is the best that one can do.

3. There does not appear to be enough distance between the beams. They are merging on my PDF. Are your beam settings thicker than Finale defaults alla Wess? I am doing that now too, but don't have this issue.

4. I am glad that stayed with 11:6. Arnstein insisted on more notes than usual for the note-value, never less; and I think that is the best system.

5. The violin grace notes are OK, but I still prefer the first version. it would be nice if they were all up stem, but it probably lifts the beam of the big notes too much.
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