[Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Have your scores reviewed by other users. Comment on old and new published scores and on publishers.
User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1742
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by OCTO »

And two editing solutions in MS2.
shot 8.png
shot 8.png (33.18 KiB) Viewed 11424 times
shot 9.png
shot 9.png (32.69 KiB) Viewed 11424 times
Interesting: MS doesn't respace notes after they are moved. They are fixed; Finale unfortunately can't do it, any change in the same row will affect spacing so that edited notes will return back to "default".
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
User avatar
tisimst
Posts: 416
Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 17:57
Location: UT, USA
Contact:

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by tisimst »

OCTO wrote:Abraham, is your example the default setting in LP?
It is.
Music Typeface Designer & Engraver - LilyPond | Sibelius | Finale | MuseScore | Dorico | SMuFL | Inkscape | FontForge
Knut
Posts: 867
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 18:07
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by Knut »

OCTO wrote: Now, I am unsure, who is right?
Provided nothing else is going on in other staves simultaneously, which makes just offsetting the note the least obstructive to the spacing, I think the way Lilypond handles it by default is the only sensible solution. My guess is that Lilypond (and perhaps even Sibelius) is able to analyze the music in a much more sophisticated way than Finale apparently is, and therefore will come up with the best solution for the particular situation.
User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1742
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by OCTO »

tisimst wrote:
OCTO wrote:Yes, I also feel that these quarter notes should be equally spaced.
As do I. And once again, LP doesn't disappoint (and nicely done, Knut!):

[Finale] Spacing issue, two voices-LP.png
If i compare your LP output with the default of MS, I think that MS wants to avoid having the augm. dot over the notehead, implying that it might be the staccato symbol. So, above edited examples in MS are the most OK - for me.
Or Knut's, when the dot is more close to the :5
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
Knut
Posts: 867
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 18:07
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by Knut »

OCTO wrote:
tisimst wrote:
OCTO wrote:Yes, I also feel that these quarter notes should be equally spaced.
As do I. And once again, LP doesn't disappoint (and nicely done, Knut!):

[Finale] Spacing issue, two voices-LP.png
If i compare your LP output with the default of MS, I think that MS wants to avoid having the augm. dot over the notehead, implying that it might be the staccato symbol. So, above edited examples in MS are the most OK - for me.
Or Knut's, when the dot is more close to the :5
Ha! I didn't think about that, but I have to say I agree; the first quarter note should definitely be offset past the augmentation dot to avoid confusion. I think your second edited MS version is pretty much ideal.

Are you saying that if the dot is not present, MS will space the example similarly to LP, or will the default output still resemble that of Finale?
User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1742
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by OCTO »

Knut wrote:Are you saying that if the dot is not present, MS will space the example similarly to LP, or will the default output still resemble that of Finale?
The answer is YES, it will move the :4 :
shot.png
shot.png (26.34 KiB) Viewed 11407 times
Finale doesn't recognise the dot.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
Knut
Posts: 867
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 18:07
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by Knut »

Huh, that's interesting!
I wonder why the dot forces the music not to respace. Something they might be working on, perhaps?
User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1742
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by OCTO »

I might ask them. Would be good to have.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
erelievonen
Posts: 96
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 16:12
Contact:

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by erelievonen »

OCTO wrote:THAT IS TRUE, this was better in the earlier Finale versions. I don't remember this issue to be so wrong before.
Or I miss something...
I wonder, how long ago was it better in Finale?
This is Finale 2010, default spacing:
2voices.jpg
2voices.jpg (23.09 KiB) Viewed 11363 times
Last edited by erelievonen on 25 Apr 2016, 16:23, edited 2 times in total.
erelievonen
Posts: 96
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 16:12
Contact:

Re: [Finale] Spacing issue, two voices

Post by erelievonen »

OCTO wrote:If i compare your LP output with the default of MS, I think that MS wants to avoid having the augm. dot over the notehead, implying that it might be the staccato symbol. So, above edited examples in MS are the most OK - for me.
Or Knut's, when the dot is more close to the :5
In my opinion, it would be preferable to have the noteheads of the half note and the quarter note as close to each other as possible (and not separated by the space taken by the dot) - this makes it easier to recognise them as sounding together - even if the half note's dot appeared above the quarter notehead. That should not be understood as a staccato dot, because a properly placed staccato dot would have to be placed on the stem side in this situation.
Post Reply