Single note-measure placement

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OCTO
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Single note-measure placement

Post by OCTO » 16 Aug 2016, 11:24

There was a discussion about placement of the :6 in the measure (centring it), here in Messiaen we have a similar idea:
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Quite interesting!

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tisimst
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Single note-measure placement

Post by tisimst » 16 Aug 2016, 11:44

Is the excessive shift to the right caused by the repeat-ties? They seem to be present in both images, and although one could argue for how long those ties should be (I think they're fine, but could be shorter), I wonder if the engravers would have placed them at the same position in the bar had there NOT been any repeat-ties...
Last edited by tisimst on 16 Aug 2016, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
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MJCube
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by MJCube » 16 Aug 2016, 15:52

Some 20th century engravings (especially French) appear to be reproducing the spacing of a composer’s manuscript much more than 19th century engravings ever did. I can’t argue against the clarity in Messiæn scores, but that amount of space for a half note or quarter note does seem wasteful to me.

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OCTO
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by OCTO » 16 Aug 2016, 17:57

tisimst wrote:Is the excessive shift to the right caused by the repeat-ties? They seem to be present in both images, and although one could argue for how long those ties should be (I think they're fine), I wonder if the engravers would have placed them at the same position in the bar had there NOT been any repeat-ties...
Very interesting thoughts, I haven't considered that.
The overall spacing is very wide. Interesting, since the German music looks so different from that time (or earlier, for instance Strauss - zip packed.)

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tisimst
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by tisimst » 16 Aug 2016, 18:03

OCTO wrote:The overall spacing is very wide.
I agree. The amount of actual space given to those measures seems unnecessary, though perhaps in the greater context it isn't as obviously large.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by John Ruggero » 28 Aug 2016, 01:47

The space both before and after the notes in the Messiaen example seems excessive to me. However, I think that the old engravers were correct to indent the note and narrow a single note measure.

I now follow the following procedure for handling this situation: I move the note one note-head to the right from its normal position and narrow the measure until the note head approaches the center. However, only in very narrow measures would the note-head be exactly centered, which can appear sterile. A single note in the final measure of a piece might be a case where exact centering is best.

It would be nice to be able to automate this procedure in Finale.
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MJCube
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by MJCube » 31 Aug 2016, 11:02

Yes, this is exactly what I’ve been doing in FInale and Sibelius for about 25 years now.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by John Ruggero » 31 Aug 2016, 23:14

That's very good to know, MJCube. I may pose this as a possible plugin at the MM forum.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 05 Sep 2016, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by John Ruggero » 05 Sep 2016, 12:39

I did pose this at the MM Forum, and HaraldS kindly provided an excellent JWLua plugin that will change the single-note indent and measure width for selected measures.

http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=484156
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MJCube
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Re: Single note-measure placement

Post by MJCube » 06 Sep 2016, 17:36

Just curious (as I don’t use Finale for work any more): Does the plugin find candidate measures in the selection too?

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