
Single note-measure placement
Single note-measure placement
There was a discussion about placement of the
in the measure (centring it), here in Messiaen we have a similar idea:
Quite interesting!

Single note-measure placement
Is the excessive shift to the right caused by the repeat-ties? They seem to be present in both images, and although one could argue for how long those ties should be (I think they're fine, but could be shorter), I wonder if the engravers would have placed them at the same position in the bar had there NOT been any repeat-ties...
Last edited by tisimst on 16 Aug 2016, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Single note-measure placement
Some 20th century engravings (especially French) appear to be reproducing the spacing of a composer’s manuscript much more than 19th century engravings ever did. I can’t argue against the clarity in Messiæn scores, but that amount of space for a half note or quarter note does seem wasteful to me.
Re: Single note-measure placement
Very interesting thoughts, I haven't considered that.tisimst wrote:Is the excessive shift to the right caused by the repeat-ties? They seem to be present in both images, and although one could argue for how long those ties should be (I think they're fine), I wonder if the engravers would have placed them at the same position in the bar had there NOT been any repeat-ties...
The overall spacing is very wide. Interesting, since the German music looks so different from that time (or earlier, for instance Strauss - zip packed.)
Re: Single note-measure placement
I agree. The amount of actual space given to those measures seems unnecessary, though perhaps in the greater context it isn't as obviously large.OCTO wrote:The overall spacing is very wide.
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- John Ruggero
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- Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Re: Single note-measure placement
The space both before and after the notes in the Messiaen example seems excessive to me. However, I think that the old engravers were correct to indent the note and narrow a single note measure.
I now follow the following procedure for handling this situation: I move the note one note-head to the right from its normal position and narrow the measure until the note head approaches the center. However, only in very narrow measures would the note-head be exactly centered, which can appear sterile. A single note in the final measure of a piece might be a case where exact centering is best.
It would be nice to be able to automate this procedure in Finale.
I now follow the following procedure for handling this situation: I move the note one note-head to the right from its normal position and narrow the measure until the note head approaches the center. However, only in very narrow measures would the note-head be exactly centered, which can appear sterile. A single note in the final measure of a piece might be a case where exact centering is best.
It would be nice to be able to automate this procedure in Finale.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
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http://www.cantilenapress.com
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com
Re: Single note-measure placement
Yes, this is exactly what I’ve been doing in FInale and Sibelius for about 25 years now.
- John Ruggero
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- Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
- Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Re: Single note-measure placement
That's very good to know, MJCube. I may pose this as a possible plugin at the MM forum.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 05 Sep 2016, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 1216
- Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
- Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Re: Single note-measure placement
I did pose this at the MM Forum, and HaraldS kindly provided an excellent JWLua plugin that will change the single-note indent and measure width for selected measures.
http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=484156
http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=484156
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com
Re: Single note-measure placement
Just curious (as I don’t use Finale for work any more): Does the plugin find candidate measures in the selection too?