Unorthodox stem direction

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qanunji
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Unorthodox stem direction

Post by qanunji » 07 Dec 2016, 11:30

Hi,
I'll appreciate your opinions in this context :
Ahot_Qtana-Morroco.png
Ahot_Qtana-Morroco.png (121.43 KiB) Viewed 2403 times
In my opinion, it gives more space for the lyrics, and shows better the curve of the melody.

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tisimst
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by tisimst » 07 Dec 2016, 13:26

Single direction stemming isn't _so_ unorthodox. Many composers/publishers have done it for the exact reason you say. No one, especially the musician reading/performing this, is going to look at this and say, "What was qanunji thinking?!? A couple of those steps are OBVIOUSLY in the wrong direction. I'm appalled!" I think you're good there.

The only other thought I have, which may be unorthodox for the kind of music you are doing, is to add slurs to show the melismas (a group of notes all sung during a single syllable). This is traditional practice and is a good graphical reminder of what the singer is supposed to do, but you'll have to tell me if that's appropriate here or not.
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OCTO
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by OCTO » 07 Dec 2016, 14:45

I think it is fine, as well. Follow tisimst's recommendation on sluring, definitely.
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qanunji
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by qanunji » 07 Dec 2016, 16:23

tisimst wrote:Single direction stemming isn't _so_ unorthodox. Many composers/publishers have done it for the exact reason you say. No one, especially the musician reading/performing this, is going to look at this and say, "What was qanunji thinking?!? A couple of those steps are OBVIOUSLY in the wrong direction. I'm appalled!" I think you're good there.

The only other thought I have, which may be unorthodox for the kind of music you are doing, is to add slurs to show the melismas (a group of notes all sung during a single syllable). This is traditional practice and is a good graphical reminder of what the singer is supposed to do, but you'll have to tell me if that's appropriate here or not.

thank you.

regarding the melismas - I'm aware of this practice.
I have omitted it for several reasons-
1. This score is like a general chart, for singers and players alike.
2.unlike western music, The nature of this music is so melismatic that the slurs really clutter the score and dictates wider space between the music, lyrics and chords.
3. In general, scores for middle eastern music are not for performance. They serve as a skeleton for the performer.
I think the dashes and hyphens are sufficient in this case.

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tisimst
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by tisimst » 07 Dec 2016, 16:25

That's what I assumed. Thank you for clarifying. I agree that the lyric hyphens and extender lines make the vocals sufficiently clear.
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OCTO
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by OCTO » 07 Dec 2016, 19:53

While I agree with you qanunji concerning the melism and slurs, the purpose of notation is communication. And since you communicate in so called the Western style, the way of notation should be in accordance to its rules. I have been working with Balkan folklore music and as well the Byzantine chant, I am aware of what obstacles one might come to when representing a very improvisation-like music in the Western prototype. Slurs in your example should exactly lead a musician to not break notes with melism - as a violinist for example - and that represents chanting more exact than without slurs.
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qanunji
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by qanunji » 08 Dec 2016, 06:24

OCTO wrote:While I agree with you qanunji concerning the melism and slurs, the purpose of notation is communication. And since you communicate in so called the Western style, the way of notation should be in accordance to its rules. I have been working with Balkan folklore music and as well the Byzantine chant, I am aware of what obstacles one might come to when representing a very improvisation-like music in the Western prototype. Slurs in your example should exactly lead a musician to not break notes with melism - as a violinist for example - and that represents chanting more exact than without slurs.
Thank you Octo,
I agree with you, every word!
But this is not a performance score, more like an education-documentation score.

qanunji
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by qanunji » 08 Dec 2016, 06:28

OCTO wrote: Slurs in your example should exactly lead a musician to not break notes with melism - as a violinist for example - and that represents chanting more exact than without slurs.
Ha ha, our players default is not to break anything ;)
Maybe instead of slurs i nead pauses :)

benwiggy
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by benwiggy » 18 Jan 2017, 13:23

OCTO wrote:
07 Dec 2016, 19:53
Slurs in your example should exactly lead a musician to not break notes with melism - as a violinist for example - and that represents chanting more exact than without slurs.
The kind of singer that would break notes in the middle of melisma in plainchant is not going to be discouraged from doing so by the addition of slurs! :)

As a singer, I've never entirely been convinced of the absolute necessity of slurs on melismas. It doesn't actually provide any new information to the page. Though they can be useful where you have several syllables on a run of semiquavers, where perhaps the syllable assignment isn't clear. However, in early music, adding slurs across all melismas is seen as a gross editorial intrusion.

Of course, slurs can be used to indicate phrasing within a vocal line, and that's obviously extra information. Similar, it's sometimes used to indicate breathing, (though most singers/choirs will invariably alter such instructions, unless critical to the success of the piece). Sets of slurs with different meanings would confuse the layout rather than clarify it.

There was also a school of notation/music where each vocal phrase gets one big slur from the first note after a rest to the last note before a rest. That also seems unnecessary.

I guess the question is: how would you sing it with or without the slur?

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John Ruggero
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Re: Unorthodox stem direction

Post by John Ruggero » 18 Jan 2017, 14:35

Slurs (when used properly) are helpful in vocal music as in instrumental music in that they show the small decorative units, which encourages the singer (or player) to emphasize the most important note and deemphasize the less. Without them, the music looks one-dimensional with every note equally important.
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