Spatial piece

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OCTO
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Spatial piece

Post by OCTO »

Page no2 from an earlier work. Feel free to comment and suggest improvements.
It was performed numerous times from the score, 11 pages in total. All musicians had A3 size, no conductor. It was not problem at all.
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Alexander Ploetz
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by Alexander Ploetz »

What is the duration of one system?
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OCTO
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by OCTO »

I don't know exactly but the tempo is about :4 = 63
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Alexander Ploetz
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by Alexander Ploetz »

Not to sound too condescending, but if the score is supposed to be in spatial notation (as in "horizontal space on the page corresponds to absolute time"), indications like metronome marks are pretty meaningless. As are ritardandi and fermatas.
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by Peter West »

The thing that is most noticeable negative point to me is the text centred on smart shapes. Personally I prefer
1. glissando rather than Glissando
2. I would use gliss. and gl. rather than glissando and gliss. Thus the shorter get means the shorter version will only be used on very short glissandi
3. I prefer the text moved away from the line a little more so that descenders don't hit/cross the line.

Generally I like your setting, I'm being pedantic.
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OCTO
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by OCTO »

Alexander Ploetz wrote:Not to sound too condescending, but if the score is supposed to be in spatial notation (as in "horizontal space on the page corresponds to absolute time"), indications like metronome marks are pretty meaningless. As are ritardandi and fermatas.
While I totally understand your comment, herewith I would expand the term "spatial notation":

If I wanted to use spatial notation with reference points (ticks, seconds or whatever) I would agree that the way you explain it is the way it should be notated. I have done it in my later piece:
Screen shot 2015-10-28 at 11.07.48 AM.png
Screen shot 2015-10-28 at 11.07.48 AM.png (62.65 KiB) Viewed 13001 times
However, there is spacial notation where there are not ticks present as the reference points. Instead there are
(a) exact phrases a tempo and
(b) spatial wait-time.

So, in the first example (original post) you have tempo :4 = 63. You execute correctly notated phrases and those are a tempo. When you have lines to keep notes, or empty spaces (rests) you wait spatially for other cues to enter/stop. In this way, the complex notation of rests and time signatures is omitted, and thus it is much easier to perform it even without the conductor. I have asked performers about their opinion, and I was shocked that they said it was extremely easy to perform.

The idea for this notation arose slowly, after I ended up with very complex notation (particularly time signatures). The main inspiration for this notation was Takemitsu in the following piece:
Screen shot 2015-10-28 at 11.02.38 AM.png
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Peter West wrote:The thing that is most noticeable negative point to me is the text centred on smart shapes.
Thanks for that, Peter, it was really helpful! I will definitely fix it. O
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John Ruggero
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by John Ruggero »

It is a nice-looking score, OCTO. Thanks for sharing this.

I do wish there were a way around the thick sustain lines. Why not white notes without stems followed by some kind of termination symbol? Thin lines would be used for gliss.

Concerning the piano pedaling marks. I prefer the old Ped. and * because it removes some long lines from the score. The only objection to this system concerns overlapping pedal, but this is easily shown by Ped. Ped, without the *. The only other problem is a "lifting" pedal as you have at rehearsal 5. But in this one instance, a line such as you have used suffices. The "gradually" seems redundant to me, but you might explain the symbol in the preface if you think that the performer needs an explanation. Alternately, you might use nothing but brackets for the pedaling, as is generally done now. But I don't care for the combination of Ped. and brackets.

What kind of accordion is used in this piece or is it two accordions?
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OCTO
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by OCTO »

John Ruggero wrote:I do wish there were a way around the thick sustain lines. Why not white notes without stems followed by some kind of termination symbol? Thin lines would be used for gliss
That is something I consider now. This is an old piece. In a piece I wrote later, I have used noteheads and lines under. Maybe that is the way?
Screen shot 2015-10-29 at 6.48.02 AM.png
Screen shot 2015-10-29 at 6.48.02 AM.png (24.05 KiB) Viewed 12979 times
I will consider the Ped. symbols! What I am faced very often is that pianists don't respect pedalling. They think it is optional (like in Chopin, sometimes you edit..). With lines I want to stress the presence of an ununrupted Pedal. But for sure, it makes more lines :(
John Ruggero wrote: What kind of accordion is used in this piece or is it two accordions?
It is a button accordion, one. Amazing instrument. With one hand player can cover 15ma! And amazing registers: up to E8!
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by John Ruggero »

The problems with pianists…don't get me going; there are so many problems. (I can say that because I am one.)

You might put in a remark that the pedaling is not optional, but really this shouldn't be necessary; a composer's pedaling should be respected. The problem is that there are sometimes acoustical issues that might require a little modification; but don't ever admit that to a pianist; make them play what you wrote, and their ears will adapt the pedaling slightly. And if you use one of the two standard pedal notation systems, I think they will respect your pedaling even more.

In case anyone is not aware of this, Chopin's pedaling is the least open to modification of any composer; it is integral to the notation. He sometimes does not notate held notes in the bass and elsewhere at the as the actual duration, but only at the finger-held value; the pedal mark then the shows exactly how long the note is to actually hold. So modifying a pedaling might be like changing a dotted half note to a half note in Beethoven or Mozart. Chopin's pedaling is NEVER used to wash over the music in some imprecise way, as some might think.

There are so many interesting accordions now. My first instrument was the piano accordion, which is the one most common here in the US. It is less interesting, so I switched to the piano.

Would the following work for spatial music? The note is held until the little square symbol.
spatial held note.jpg
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OCTO
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Re: Spatial piece

Post by OCTO »

Also Scriabin in his later sonatas (5+) uses :ped extremely rare. Everything is written in voices that support/force pedaling.
John Ruggero wrote: Would the following work for spatial music? The note is held until the little square symbol.
Without knowing more about that piece, it is hard to say. What is dashed barline, if it is a barline? Also does the square object represent double whole rest? Or it is something else? The notehead however implies one :5 .
So I am pretty unsure.
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