Crumb's unique rhythms

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OCTO
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Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by OCTO »

Yesterday I was serving as a producer on recording of Crumb's Quest.
Interesting notations: in both cases there are note-values that cover the whole measure, impossible in the traditional notation.
First, a dot on the opposite side, in 5 / :2 :
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20151221_193751-1.jpg (45.46 KiB) Viewed 13347 times
Second, multiple dots in 15 / :3
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20151221_202051-1.jpg (53.09 KiB) Viewed 13347 times
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wess-music
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by wess-music »

First one I find very cool!
OCTO, you make me smile! Sincerely.

Thank you.
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David Ward
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by David Ward »

Triple dots can be found in Bruckner, although always followed in the bar by the short note to even things up. Usually a triple-dotted minim (1/2) = one and 7/8 minim, followed by a semiquaver (1/16) = the remaining 1/8 of the minim &c.

Crumb seems to be following the same principle with his triple dots after the note, but without the following short note because of his 15/x time signature.
Last edited by David Ward on 22 Dec 2015, 17:02, edited 2 times in total.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by John Ruggero »

OMG! He's adding on one side of the chord and subtracting on the other. Only Crumb would come up with this.

I've never seen the bracket-like beaming at the end of the second example before. This is a very creative and interesting way to show a syncopation. Is this common now?

The triple dots of the second example are not common, but Chopin has a few and probably many others too. But I have never seen one fill out a whole measure before. If Zeno had been a musician, his paradox would have read "How many dots must one add to a single half note to fill a complete 4/4 measure."

A good case could be made for a new kind of note that fills out an entire measure of any meter, corresponding to a "whole measure rest".
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David Ward
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by David Ward »

John Ruggero wrote:A good case could be made for a new kind of note that fills out an entire measure of any meter, corresponding to a "whole measure rest".
Definitely.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by John Ruggero »

But why not:
l. v. Chord.jpg
l. v. Chord.jpg (21.95 KiB) Viewed 13323 times
In the second example, make it a whole note with a tie with or without an l. v. and everyone will understand. Or make it a double whole note. Will anyone complain?
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David Ward
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by David Ward »

That might work for pianists, but what about some notation that would be clear in single line orchestral parts as “a new kind of note …” as you suggested above?
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MJCube
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by MJCube »

John wrote:He's adding on one side of the chord and subtracting on the other.
Brilliant!! And why did I never think of this? It’s compact, perfectly clear, and the principle could be extensible to other durations.
RMK
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by RMK »

Keep in mind that Crumb worked as a copyist for quite a while. His autography is beautiful - suitable for framing.

The music isn't bad, either...
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David Ward
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Re: Crumb's unique rhythms

Post by David Ward »

John Ruggero wrote:Or make it a double whole note. Will anyone complain?
A breve (ie double whole note) is perhaps the most traditional-seeming answer that ought to fit most situations, if not as elegant as Crumb's before & after (or multiple) dots.
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