Quarter rest design

[Fred G. Unn]

As I've become accustomed to reading contemporary text typefaces that use larger open counters, I've found myself sort of annoyed by quarter rests that use a tiny open counter above the second staff line. Yes, they are an easily distinguishable and distinct character so there generally isn't any confusion about what we are looking at, but why not incorporate modern design concepts about legibility and readability and increase the white space in the open counter?

Here are quarter rests from seven commonly encountered music fonts. I've left out any "handwritten" styles as I never use them, and of course there are plenty others available too, but these seem to be the fonts I see most often. Maybe it doesn't make much sense to compare them in the abstract without the other glyphs, but even out of context, does anyone prefer one over the other?

Rest Comparison.jpg (74.32 KiB) Viewed 13660 times

My $0.02:
1) Counter is too small.
2) I like this one a lot, possibly my favorite.
3) Hate this one, counter is too small and it almost is sitting on the second line.
4) I like this one too, the top seems a little thin though.
5) The top strokes intersecting right at the 4th line looks a little strange to me, but otherwise good.
6) The thick lines look a little too thin to me. Something seems a little too pointy and angular as well.
7) Thicker lines create a nice contrast with the staff, well-balanced, but the counter is too small.

Anyone else want to chime in? Obviously there are plenty of other possible designs too, including a bunch here: https://fonts.openlilylib.org/

[John Ruggero]

Fred, I dislike any symbol that seems to be falling over. I am not exactly sure what causes this effect; maybe the alignment of the leftmost projections in the symbol. I have seen certain treble clef designs (not one in one of the Finale fonts) that fall over and hate them.

So I too prefer no. 2, and no. 5 because they are the most upright and well balanced. However, neither is "perfect". No. 2 is a little heavy and no. 5 is a little thin, but close to "right" for me. Split the different and you have a great rest. But I could live with either.

No. 1 is good but falling slightly forward (that is, toward the left, counterclockwise)
No. 3 has too much air and falling forward.
No. 4 is good but a little airy and falling slightly forward.
No. 6 is upright but too slight.
No. 7 is on the right track but slightly too bold for my taste and also falling forward.

I am liking this Forum more and more. These are subjects that would never come up over at Finale.

OCTO, you are a visionary!

[Fred G. Unn]

Fred, I dislike any symbol that seems to be falling over. I am not exactly sure what causes this effect; maybe the alignment of the leftmost projections in the symbol.

I could come to terms with something that has a slight forward lean, just from the standpoint of leading your eye forward on the page, but I too prefer the more balanced symbols.

I am liking this Forum more and more. These are subjects that would never come up over at Finale.

OCTO, you are a visionary!

I agree, thanks OCTO! It will be a little sad to see most of the more interesting (to me anyway) conversation move away from the Finale and Sibelius forums, but it's great to have a place to discuss stuff like this. I've been trying to recruit a few more folks too.

[Fred G. Unn]

If we want to continue the game, does anyone want to take on 8th rests? Of course, we're leaving aside the issue of how well the glyphs work together in context with each other, but here are the 8th rests from the same 7 fonts as above:

8th Rest Comparison.jpg (73.75 KiB) Viewed 13648 times

[Knut]

Interesting discussion.
I would love for you to comment on the design of the rests from my own music font.

[Fred G. Unn]

Wow, what is the name of your font Knut? Is it commercially available?

I really like the 8ths, 16ths, etc.! Perhaps the dot is a teeny bit big for me, but the amount of white space both above and below make it very legible. I'm being picky here, but #2 in my examples above doesn't quite have enough for me, #4 has too much etc. I like the contrast between your "stem" or whatever you call that line and the staff line, and the angle seems about perfect too. Example #7 above has a strong contrast as well, but a bit too much for me and you sort of split the difference.

The counter on the quarter is great, and the width, contrast, and balance are great too! Most quarter rests have a sharper point at the top right corner, including all 7 above. I don't mind yours at all, but I'm wondering why you made that a little less sharp. Maybe "humanizing" the font a bit? I really like the half and whole rests as well. Are the corners slightly softened on those? I know the Maestro half and whole rests that Blake helped design are based on the Halston printed publications from London Boosey, but I've never liked the rests that extend far past the midpoint like Maestro and yours are very clear.

I would love to hear all your thought process of your font as you designed it. If it's commercially available, please post that info too!

[OCTO]

Interesting discussion.
I would love for you to comment on the design of the rests from my own music font.

Absolutely amazing. For me it looks like "softened Engraver" or "emboldened Maestro", but in both cases the soft edges, and good boldness makes it very pleasant.

Here are quarter rests from seven commonly encountered music fonts. I've left out any "handwritten" styles as I never use them, and of course there are plenty others available too, but these seem to be the fonts I see most often. Maybe it doesn't make much sense to compare them in the abstract without the other glyphs, but even out of context, does anyone prefer one over the other?

Actually it is a very good way for comparison. In a context I would definitely judge differently and also, knowing immediately what font is in question, I would not judge abstractly.

I tried NOT to think about what font they belong into, but rather to compare them as they are, visually.

For
I like the most No 2, as well.
The rests I do NOT like are 3 and 6. No 3 seems that it will fall apart, No 6 has tendency to disappear.
The last one seems to be like a "bold" variant of the first. Maybe angled to much to the left?

For
No2 is the best of available as well. A good balance, looks stable.
I dislike 4 and 6, 3 belongs to this as well.
No 1 and 5 are fine for me, maybe 5 is a bit more "stable".
The last one is to bold, and to small. Seems to be popping-out in an unusual way.

[Knut]

Thank you, Fred and Octo, for your positive feedback!

Wow, what is the name of your font Knut? Is it commercially available?

Unfortunately it's still in the works, but I plan to make it commercially available when it's done. It was almost finished until the SMuFL standard came along with it's enormous symbol set. hock:

Perhaps the dot is a teeny bit big for me, but the amount of white space both above and below make it very legible.

Originally these rests had somewhat smaller dots or ball terminals. I increased them, however, to achieve a better balance of weight across all the rests. This is a problem I find with a lot of digital music fonts, including many of those you posted.

Most quarter rests have a sharper point at the top right corner, including all 7 above. I don't mind yours at all, but I'm wondering why you made that a little less sharp. Maybe "humanizing" the font a bit? I really like the half and whole rests as well. Are the corners slightly softened on those? I know the Maestro half and whole rests that Blake helped design are based on the Halston printed publications from London Boosey, but I've never liked the rests that extend far past the midpoint like Maestro and yours are very clear.

I would love to hear all your thought process of your font as you designed it

The font will focus on modern notation symbols, and is inspired by the scores of French publishers from the golden age of plate engraving. Design wise, I've tried to cover some middle ground between the typical computer fonts, with their hard edges and thin strokes, and the 'relic' fonts based on scans of plate engraved music, like November or Bravura. My ambition was to achieve the warmth of plate engraved music, without loosing all the precision and regularity of a contemporary aesthetic and better compliment the use of most digital text typefaces.

The glyphs are either hand drawn or thoroughly cleaned up scans, to avoid the sloppy shapes often seen in digital music fonts at close range. To give them more of a plate engraved look, most outer edges are rounded, and line width are slightly heavier than most modern music fonts.

Here's a demo I posted on the Finale Forum a while back:

[Fred G. Unn]

and the 'relic' fonts based on scans of plate engraved music, like November or Bravura.

I don't own November, but as it is one of the more well known third party fonts, I'd be curious to see a comparison if anyone can post it. Bravura is one of the fonts I included above and is fairly easily distinguishable IMO.

If anyone is curious, at some point I can post the images with the font names attached. I just thought it was easier to make an impartial judgement without them as we all have our program and font biases.

[John Ruggero]

I am curious, Fred.

Knut, I think that your 1/4 rest is perfect in terms of design, but is angled a little too much to the left (what I meant by "falling forward") for my taste. I like all of your other rests, but agree that the balls at the end of the 1/8 etc. rests are a little big. However, the angle on the 1/8 etc. rests is perfect and the reason I don't like any of the rests that Fred posted. None but the last have a good angle, and the last has other problems. Otherwise Fred's no. 2 looks best to me, but your angle is better.