Font feedback

Music notation symbols, fonts, font sources and font creation, SmuFL.
Knut
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Re: Font feedback

Post by Knut » 29 Oct 2016, 10:51

OCTO wrote:As such, in TS I would avoid these. My taste tells me that they cannot be easily readable from 2 meter distance.
Yes indeed, my point exactly. The goal is for the numerals in the bold font to be the same as the time signature numerals in the music font. Hopefully the numerals in the regular and italic fonts are clear enough to be used for more general purpose text purposes.

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OCTO
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Re: RE: Re: Font feedback

Post by OCTO » 29 Oct 2016, 11:00

Knut wrote:
OCTO wrote:As such, in TS I would avoid these. My taste tells me that they cannot be easily readable from 2 meter distance.
Yes indeed, my point exactly. The goal is for the numerals in the bold font to be the same as the time signature numerals in the music font. Hopefully the numerals in the regular and italic fonts are clear enough to be used for more general purpose text purposes.
Perhaps it is possible.
But only fingering numbers, IMHO, can match the TS numerals. It is not really needed to have one single type for all numbers. But one font family would be good to have, a kind of: regular, demibold, semibold, bold, fat, condensed...

But a very good BW balance must be achieved: no white spots, no thin connections of serifs.

Print your score at 7mm staff size and try to play from 2 meter distance. Objects that popup or look disappearing must be corrected.
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Knut
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Re: RE: Re: Font feedback

Post by Knut » 29 Oct 2016, 11:39

OCTO wrote:
Knut wrote:
OCTO wrote:As such, in TS I would avoid these. My taste tells me that they cannot be easily readable from 2 meter distance.
Yes indeed, my point exactly. The goal is for the numerals in the bold font to be the same as the time signature numerals in the music font. Hopefully the numerals in the regular and italic fonts are clear enough to be used for more general purpose text purposes.
Perhaps it is possible.
But only fingering numbers, IMHO, can match the TS numerals. It is not really needed to have one single type for all numbers. But one font family would be good to have, a kind of: regular, demibold, semibold, bold, fat, condensed...
Oh, now I understand what you mean.

You don't need to have a similar numeral design for everything featured in a score. Question is, would you if you could?

There's an argument to be made that using this numeral design in all fonts would make the font family seem more cohesive. Many plate engraved score do indeed feature this design for everything from Instrument names, page numbers tuplets, bar numbers, etc., not just for time signatures and fingering.

Consider for example:
Skjermbilde 2016-10-29 kl. 13.34.34.png
Skjermbilde 2016-10-29 kl. 13.34.34.png (41.77 KiB) Viewed 1483 times
… instead of:
Skjermbilde 2016-10-29 kl. 13.35.34.png
Skjermbilde 2016-10-29 kl. 13.35.34.png (44.58 KiB) Viewed 1483 times
You seem to suggest that this particular style of numbers should only be used for semi bold or bold text styles. You might be right, but seeing as they are featured in the ITC Century Italic font (at regular weight), I thought I would try it.

If you would prefer the conventional numbers style for the lighter weights in both roman and italic, the current style can be featured as an 'old style' alternative. Unicode provides dedicated slots for this category.

MJCube
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Re: Font feedback

Post by MJCube » 30 Oct 2016, 19:09

I am just loving these Libretto designs, Knut! This is precisely the kind of type I’ve been wanting for scores for many years, and I am very eager to use it when it’s ready. I should reread this entire thread and add some comments when I can concentrate, but I wanted to post this praise right away now.

Knut
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Re: Font feedback

Post by Knut » 30 Oct 2016, 19:31

Thank you for those very kind and inspiring remarks, MJCube!
I'm very eager to read all comments, ideas and any criticisms you might have.

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OCTO
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Re: Font feedback

Post by OCTO » 30 Oct 2016, 22:14

Knut wrote:Consider for example:
… instead of:
I think your both version of numbers are very beautiful, and can be used as a text font in (my) scores. The open 4 variant is more "old" looking, and closed 4 variant is more after 1900.
I would rather use the closed, more straight variant in my music.

However, as I said before, I would none of them use as the time signatures.

I think your work on fonts is absolutely beautiful. You should definitely release these and sell online.
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Finale 2014.5 • Sibelius 7.1.3 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9/10 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan (10.11.6)

Knut
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Re: Font feedback

Post by Knut » 30 Oct 2016, 23:19

OCTO wrote:
Knut wrote:Consider for example:
… instead of:
I think your both version of numbers are very beautiful, and can be used as a text font in (my) scores. The open 4 variant is more "old" looking, and closed 4 variant is more after 1900.
I would rather use the closed, more straight variant in my music.
Just to be perfectly clear to everyone: the conventional numerals aren't mine; they're New Century Schoolbook. However, I will adapt a similar design if those are preferred.

I'll likely have to find a solution to be able to include both variations, as tastes may differ, but only one set will be easily accessible through the keyboard. At least this is the case until Finale and others start supporting OpenType features like stylistic alternates.
OCTO wrote:However, as I said before, I would none of them use as the time signatures.
Sure. These are not intended to be used for time signatures.
OCTO wrote:I think your work on fonts is absolutely beautiful. You should definitely release these and sell online.
Thank you so much! It really means a lot to hear that. I do indeed intend to do so.

Knut
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Re: Font feedback

Post by Knut » 15 Nov 2016, 13:24

The basics:
Skjermbilde 2016-11-15 kl. 14.22.27.png
Skjermbilde 2016-11-15 kl. 14.22.27.png (738.24 KiB) Viewed 1358 times

Knut
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Re: Font feedback

Post by Knut » 15 Nov 2016, 21:17

And finally some context using only the styles above for all text objects; time signature, tuplets, dynamic and text are all Libretto.
Skjermbilde 2016-11-15 kl. 22.24.57.png
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OCTO
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Re: Font feedback

Post by OCTO » 16 Nov 2016, 03:23

Lovely!
One thing you might consider: in your music example the Roman and Italic style don't appear to have same weight.
I would compensate the Italic style by being taller, also, in music as it is with your "f molto espressivo" - I tend to have larger texting, if your is 12 pt, than try 13 pt - OR, make 12 pt to look like 13 pt.
I would definitely like to try the text in my scores when it is completed. Great job and really beautiful!
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