Accents: size and shape

[Knut]

I'm curious which of these three versions of accents you prefer. I've gotten some response on one of these on the Finale Forum a while back, but no comments from the core users on this forum, so far as I can remember.

The left and center versions are each modeled after the two accents used by Durand back in the day; the left one being punched and the center one being cut into the plate (I think). The leftmost version is also very similar to the accent in 19th and early 20th century Peters editions.

The one on the right is a more typical, smaller version.

Skjermbilde 2015-10-22 kl. 10.39.59.png (33.98 KiB) Viewed 14199 times

[Vaughan]

I very much like the bent lines of the two centre examples. Next to them, the other accents seem stiff, although the smaller accents on the right slightly less so. The centre examples would fit very well into a font with rounded edges and slightly irregular, 'organic' shapes, like the November font.

[OCTO]

I like 1-2, 5-6. I don't see reason having bent lines, in my taste.
Why not to make two different variants: one for flipped and one for normal note-heads, with emboldened stroke on the note side?

[RMK]

I vote for 5 and 6.

The problem with 1 and 2 is that they exceed the width of the note-head. This could be a problem in tightly spaced passages.

[Knut]

I very much like the bent lines of the two centre examples. Next to them, the other accents seem stiff, although the smaller accents on the right slightly less so. The centre examples would fit very well into a font with rounded edges and slightly irregular, 'organic' shapes, like the November font.

I like that too. The bend fits nicely both with the roundness of the noteheads and the arcs of slurs.

Why not to make two different variants: one for flipped and one for normal note-heads, with emboldened stroke on the note side?

I take it you're referring to a shape with contrasting strokes, kind of like the marcato shape in the Pretrucci font turned 90 degrees? I've seen some fonts with this kind of accent, but it isn't commonplace. I don't think it would fit in this font anyway, since even the marcato symbols have only one stroke width, again similar to Durand.

The problem with 1 and 2 is that they exceed the width of the note-head. This could be a problem in tightly spaced passages.

Yes, that might be true, although the notes would probably have to be 32nd notes or smaller (or insanely tighly spaced 16th notes), and I don't think accented notes within a run of 32nd notes would be very common?

[OCTO]

The problem with 1 and 2 is that they exceed the width of the note-head. This could be a problem in tightly spaced passages.

Yes, that might be true, although the notes would probably have to be 32nd notes or smaller (or insanely tighly spaced 16th notes), and I don't think accented notes within a run of 32nd notes would be very common?

Personally, I don't think that the width makes problem. It is very common practice with old publications. Sometimes I wished to have them included in common fonts. Maestro has very narrow but to high (open) accent. I don't like that so much.

Anyhow, these are very beautiful accents.

[Fred G. Unn]

I vote for 5 and 6.

+1. They just seem more balanced with the notehead.

[John Ruggero]

I prefer the last two so that the "rhythmic" accent mark is not confused with a short diminuendo in a very cramped place, or a notation used by 19th century composers that is now not well-known, but looks like a very short diminuendo, something like your accents 1-4 but a bit longer. I call it an "intensity mark" because it apparently meant an expressive leaning on the note, as opposed to a rhythmic accent. It actually could be of different lengths to show different degrees or quality of emphasis.

The reason that it is not well-known is that later engravers routinely replaced it the normal accent mark. So if you have ever wondered about the appropriateness of a certain accent in a romantic piece, you might very well be dealing with an intensity mark that was mis-engraved. Some modern editions, like the Wiener Urtext, are now doing a much better job of engraving this marking. The original editions of Chopin also try to mimic the autograph. A casual look through the first edition of the Preludes will reveal "accent" marks of varying lengths and which follow the autograph.

http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usi ... _first.pdf

[Knut]

Thanks you all for your thoughts on this!

John, the mark you're referring to is unknown to me. Do you know if it is related to what is referred to (in SMuFL at least) as a Messa di voce; a short crescendo and diminuendo typically placed under a note. I've seen that symbol commonly replaced by two opposing accent marks, and have actually adopted this practice in my own font to replicate the plate engraver's way of doing things. Similarly, I was initially opposed to using smaller accents, because they didn't seem authentic to the style I'm trying to emulate.

However, as this thread implies, there seems to be good reason to adopt a more modern practice in a font that's intended to work well with many different styles of music. At the same time, I don't really want to take away the 'authentic touch' from those who favor the larger accents and will use them in contexts which makes their meaning clear either way.

Luckily, SMuFL provides substantial room for optional symbols and stylistic alternates, so it is tempting to make all three accent types available (including combinations with other articulations and alternates for small staff), even though it seems a bit excessive with this kind of accidental assortment (pun definitely intended).

[John Ruggero]

Nice pun! Yes, please make a beautiful assortment of such accents. Some with nuts and some with fruit fillings! The longer ones should not be too wide.

The Messa di voce is quite similar (thank you for giving me the technical name for that) but not exactly the same. I have always interpreted that one as meaning a more gradual intensifying of a tone as if adding vibrato. Of course, this is imaginary for a pianist, but we are accustomed to being magicians. Schumann among others, used that marking in piano music, I believe. He was the "warm" composer.

Here is a look inside the Wiener Urtext of the Chopin Nocturnes:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/look_inside?R=5676189

Page 8 There is one in measure 5. This can't be a rhythmic accent because no one would accent this note. Then there are ones in measures 9, 13, 21, 28, 30, and 31, which you can't see unless you have this edition, just to show you how prevalent they are. They all mean a very singing, intense note that is not an rhythmic accent.
Page 40 There are ones in 11 and 13. These are the same as above. Many are on off beats and have to handled carefully.