SCORE-based fonts

Music notation symbols, fonts, font sources and font creation, SmuFL.
Harpsichordmaker
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Joined: 10 Apr 2016, 08:19

SCORE-based fonts

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

From here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=695
OCTO wrote:
19 Jan 2021, 06:17
It is font Vienna, used in Finale.
I do love that font too, and yes half notehead is one of the finest among all fonts in my opinion.
It is based on SCORE.
Thanks OCTO. After reading your post I did a research on SCORE-derived fonts, and found that Vienna, Partita and SCORlatti do claim to be derived from SCORE. In fact, if you look at the font comparison app on the Elbsound website (https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php) cycling between Vienna, Partita and SCORlatti you’ll find remarkable similarity among the three.
In SCORlatti the G-clef is a little smaller than in Vienna, but the outline seems the same. The half noteheads are indistinguishable to my eyes.
The new Musescore font, Leland, claims the same (it’s not on Elbsound font comparison, though).

I’m not a fan of SCORE, I never did use it nor did I know its existence before subscribing to Notat.io, but I do like these fonts, they are pleasantly dark without being too dark like some glyphs in Norfolk (which I found to be somewhat darker than Bravura, again look at the font comparison app).

benwiggy
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by benwiggy »

I think they say that Leland is 'inspired by', but not an exact copy. (In the same way that Hollywood films are often 'based on' historical events. :lol:)

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oktophonie
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by oktophonie »

We do say that :)
It's maybe worth pointing out that the weight of the symbols in SCORE's output is down to what line width setting you use when printing (i.e. generating the EPS); that determines what width of stroke is applied to the paths of all symbols, though it's possible to specify a modifier for individual symbols in the score if you need to. So getting a score with a 'good weight' is the responsibility of the user to some extent, and I've seen plenty of scores generated too light or too heavy (and have certainly been guilty of it myself). Here's an example with two different line widths.
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Harpsichordmaker
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Joined: 10 Apr 2016, 08:19

Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

oktophonie wrote:
22 Jan 2021, 11:06
We do say that :)
It's maybe worth pointing out that the weight of the symbols in SCORE's output is down to what line width setting you use when printing (i.e. generating the EPS); that determines what width of stroke is applied to the paths of all symbols, though it's possible to specify a modifier for individual symbols in the score if you need to. So getting a score with a 'good weight' is the responsibility of the user to some extent, and I've seen plenty of scores generated too light or too heavy (and have certainly been guilty of it myself). Here's an example with two different line widths.
I see. Thanks for pointing out this.

The line widths (note stems, staves, barlines) are usually adjustable in the software, but then the glyphs remain the same: clefs, time signature, half noteheads.

Time to produce fonts with different weights to adapt to the various line widths?
I mean, something like the "pro" text fonts: caption, regular, display and so on.

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OCTO
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by OCTO »

I think it should work on the software level. I don't know if Dorico has that kind of settings.
For example: when having reduced staff, the font should be heavier and not reduced proportionally. The same would be with lines.
Nothing is more sad than to see a full large orchestral score where all information is hair-thin and pages are vanishing.
The smart publisher exports everything into "illustrator" kind of application and edit page by page by converting fonts and lines into outlines and makes everything emboldened (and removing overlaps, making soft edges etc etc). The final product should look like SCORE, more less, resulting in a pure vector graphic file.
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Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

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tisimst
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by tisimst »

There has been some discussion, and should be implemented as part of the SMuFL standard, a font property related to a “size”. I wouldn’t expect any software to support this properly anytime soon since it’s an enormous undertaking creating even one font let alone multiple optical sizes and there’s really only one font family that could theoretically even do this, Emmentaler. However, I love that it’s being considered since I have always wanted to get into optical sizes and have even done some dabbling in it.

To do what SCORE does, the font has to be designed in a very different way than fonts are done now. It’s a cool method, but not as straightforward to a designer.
Music Typeface Designer & Engraver - LilyPond | Sibelius | Finale | MuseScore | Dorico | SMuFL | Inkscape | FontForge
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benwiggy
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by benwiggy »

I remember reading an interview with one of the Adobe type designers - probably Robert Slimbach - who was expressing disappointment that software (such as InDesign) didn't auto-select the appropriate optical size. Apparently, that was the original plan.

It occurred to me that as old Type 1 fonts had separate files for Old-style figures, small caps, etc, which OpenType combined into one font file, a future font format might contain optical sizes within one file and use the appropriate size automatically. I don't know whether the new variable metrics in OTF 2.0 would work for this.

benwiggy
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by benwiggy »

tisimst wrote:
22 Jan 2021, 19:39
There has been some discussion, and should be implemented as part of the SMuFL standard, a font property related to a “size”. I wouldn’t expect any software to support this properly anytime soon since it’s an enormous undertaking creating even one font let alone multiple optical sizes and there’s really only one font family that could theoretically even do this, Emmentaler. However, I love that it’s being considered since I have always wanted to get into optical sizes and have even done some dabbling in it.
SMuFL does specify alternate glyphs for small and large sizes: it's only just dawned on me that they are supposed to be optical sizes, rather than just physically smaller and larger versions.
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tisimst
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by tisimst »

benwiggy wrote:
23 Jan 2021, 14:00
tisimst wrote:
22 Jan 2021, 19:39
There has been some discussion, and should be implemented as part of the SMuFL standard, a font property related to a “size”. I wouldn’t expect any software to support this properly anytime soon since it’s an enormous undertaking creating even one font let alone multiple optical sizes and there’s really only one font family that could theoretically even do this, Emmentaler. However, I love that it’s being considered since I have always wanted to get into optical sizes and have even done some dabbling in it.
SMuFL does specify alternate glyphs for small and large sizes: it's only just dawned on me that they are supposed to be optical sizes, rather than just physically smaller and larger versions.
Yes, it does, as a but even Dorico doesn’t honor a font other than the two core ones (and it may just be Bravura, last time I checked) when those glyphs are present. It’s also a pretty small, but still useful, subset of glyphs. So, it’s not really appropriate for mixed staff sizes.
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OCTO
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Re: SCORE-based fonts

Post by OCTO »

oktophonie wrote:
22 Jan 2021, 11:06
We do say that :)
It's maybe worth pointing out that the weight of the symbols in SCORE's output is down to what line width setting you use when printing (i.e. generating the EPS); that determines what width of stroke is applied to the paths of all symbols, though it's possible to specify a modifier for individual symbols in the score if you need to. So getting a score with a 'good weight' is the responsibility of the user to some extent, and I've seen plenty of scores generated too light or too heavy (and have certainly been guilty of it myself). Here's an example with two different line widths.
Here are three versions of the same music, used Finale + Vienna + edited in Inkscape: converted to outlines and removed overlaps with no values added, added 0,15px stroke and added 0,55 pixel stroke. You can test by using zoom in and zoom out. Interesting, with added 0,55 pixel stroke you can really have a very small staff size. (Right click - open in a new tab)
test-optimized.svg
test-optimized.svg (50.69 KiB) Viewed 339 times
test-optimized+15.svg
test-optimized+15.svg (50.64 KiB) Viewed 339 times
test-optimized+55.svg
test-optimized+55.svg (50.64 KiB) Viewed 339 times
Remember that adding a stroke is not proportional emboldening. Adding stroke of 0,5px to all objects makes bold lines "a bit bold" and thin lines "more bold".
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Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

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