Espressivo font

Music notation symbols, fonts, font sources and font creation, SmuFL.
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OCTO
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by OCTO »

Knut wrote: I have similar thoughts as you do about these fonts, and I must say I'm really impressed by your attention to typographic details, despite not being a font designer yourself (as far as I know). It's composers and musicians like yourself who make sweating to perfect every single bézier curve worth it. :)
True. I really love fonts, design and publications. My love for musical fonts was initiated some years ago by a close friend of mine, also memeber of this forum. He showed me some tricks how to adjust what I need, and so far I have learned just to open a font and change what I wish. Now I am obsessed by musical scores and over all my scores. ..
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John Ruggero
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by John Ruggero »

The font is Times New Roman italic taken from a Word document.

As I implied, I am a peasant when it comes to text fonts in music (maybe other things too). Times New Roman for everything: tempo indications, expressions, text blocks. Other fonts look either too thick, too calligraphic (as OCTO mentioned), too slanted, or just too something.

Times New Roman italic looks exactly right to me because I don't want the text expressions to stand out too much. They are just helps, confirmations and reminders for the performer.* And when in a large pt size and emboldened for markings that the conductor actually needs to see in the heat of battle, TNR is very clear.

*Heinrich Schenker once said that if ALL the markings (including articulations) in the music by the master composers were omitted, a wise performer could restore them, because they are all implied by the music. This may be an overstatement, but I think that it contains a large grain of truth. For example, are the markings in the first phrase of the Chopin Sonata in the thread "Composers vs Engravers: stem direction" really necessary? Wouldn't any good musician play it exactly as written without the F, the cresc. and the slurs? It is really impossible to play any other way. The markings only confirm what is there and encourage the player to do what is instinctive.
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Knut
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by Knut »

John Ruggero wrote: Times New Roman italic looks exactly right to me because I don't want the text expressions to stand out too much. They are just helps, confirmations and reminders for the performer.* And when in a large pt size and emboldened for markings that the conductor actually needs to see in the heat of battle, TNR is very clear.
You are definitely not alone with this view, John.

Nevertheless, the preference towards TNR in music has always baffled me a bit. In my view, it isn't particularly suited for text at small sizes; the serifs are very thin and some design aspects makes it seem more like a fancy display font than a modest text typeface. However, I suspect that TNR's extremely wide circulation in recent decades have made most people used to it, seemingly regardless of context or size, even to the point where it is regarded as a neutral or even bland.

With regard to music, the very slight strokes of some common music fonts (like Maestro for instance), combined with rather thin primitives (staff lines bar lines, etc.,) might not overpower TNR for those who are used to it. Combined with a more substantial Music font like Engraver, Bravura or certainly my own design, however, I can't imagine that it will hold up.
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wess-music
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by wess-music »

Quite a considerable period of time I've been hesitating and asking myself "which italic font is most suitable for all my scores".

I was positively surprised by Espressivo – no doubt, for classical pocket score is very appropriate. The only problem for my works was that combining it with Maestro or all 4 fonts I developed "Espressivo" looks too heavy and even randomly dispersed. I suspect that it has been generated form some old school scores, which is most logical direction when one begins to create custom font, but for contemporary scores ... IMO it doesn't fit the bill.
As I read here, many colleagues face and share similar problem - either the serifs of the font are too thin or wise versa.

That was the reason to concentrate myself and to find solutions that will solve my needs. Likewise Knut, I prepared a serif font. (I was more than 4 years ago). It is simple and unpretentious. It was tested with different type of music and texture — and for me it works.
The stress test for every graphical tool is always the challenges either it works with contemporary music or not.
I think OCTO spotted this, if I am not wrong.
Here I would like to share my experience and if you have any critics, I would be very grateful to collect them in order to improve the font.
Personally I always try to avoid Times New Roman, because it is not my favourite one. In its Roman style I find all the digits awful – especially "5". Unfortunately most of my customers (with very few exceptions) insist Times NR to be the main text font. Therefore I needed to generate an italic serif font which have to play together with Times NR. And here it is:
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John Ruggero
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by John Ruggero »

Wess, I am completely won over by your font and think that it is much superior to TNR italic for music in that it is true to the traditions of music engraving, has more beautiful characters than TNR, is more condensed and more definite without being too bold or too "anything". It has none of the deficits that you, OCTO and Knut have shown me about TNR. Have you also designed a regular, bold and italic bold?
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OCTO
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by OCTO »

Amazing font, Wess!
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Knut
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by Knut »

Very nice, Wess!

The characters are well proportioned, curves look even and spacing looks just about perfect. Congratulations!
Personally, I would have used a bit more contrast between thick and thin lines (according to my examples in an earlier post), but that's merely a stylistic choice, and you seem to have both OCTO and John on your side in this regard.

Since you're looking for constructive criticism, I will point out the following:
There seems to be some variety in the thickness of the thin strokes, particularly in the lower part of the u compared to the v (The w makes this particularly apparent as it's a composite of both characters, essentially).

Likewise, the top curve of the a seems thicker than the lower one. Make sure the intersection between where the horizontal curves meets the vertical stem is thinner than the thickest part of the stroke, and that the proportions are the same both above and below.

I would lower the vertical stem of the 4 a bit, to make the gap at the top larger. Since you have chosen the open style, this should be firmly established.
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OCTO
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by OCTO »

How brilliant done, Wess!!
Screen shot 2015-12-22 at 12.33.31 PM.png
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wess-music
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by wess-music »

Knut wrote:Very nice, Wess!
I would lower the vertical stem of the 4 a bit, to make the gap at the top larger. Since you have chosen the open style, this should be firmly established.
Thank you all, dear colleagues, for your reading and opinion.
Knut, you are definitely right about "4". Thus I must fix it! Thank you.

__________
@ John Ruggero

there are only two versions: normal and light (both Italic).
This one is the second one – light. I use it only for 7 mm staves. The other one is more appropriate for small staves – orchestral scores.
__________
OCTO wrote:How brilliant done, Wess!!
Screen shot 2015-12-22 at 12.33.31 PM.png
Thank you OCTO.
My philosophy reads as follows:

"I do live with that... That's all what I am here for — just to learn from everyone of you..."

Russians have another wise saying: “поживём - увидим, доживём - узнаем, выживем - учтём”.
My English is not good enough to translate it, however I just cheeked that Google translator suggests very close and reasonable results.
So, you can try if it may concerned you.

Thank you.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Espressivo font

Post by John Ruggero »

Suggestions:

OCTO, is your screen shot a suggestion for improvement? If so, I agree. As you know, I don't care for slurs that cut through accidentals, even though this seems to be a house style with some publishers.

Wess, I don't understand the pedaling indication in the last measure of the first screen shot. The inverted v is the symbol for a overlapping pedal, a quick up and down of the foot, and it is a contradiction in terms to have one at the beginning of a bracket because the foot is already up. (-:

I personally do not care for "European"-style pedaling indications with an initial Ped. leading into the bracket. There is a whole thread about this on this Forum. I think either the traditional Ped *, or all brackets. Why combine the two styles? Brackets under the music mean pedaling to any pianist; they don't need it explained.

I also think that the composer's (Ped. tenuto) and then the later (Ped.) is redundant and just additional clutter. Any pianist and especially any pianist who can play this music would understand what the interrupted bracket means.

There are a few cases where the italicized expression does not line up well with a neighboring dynamic marking: sempre PPP (echo).
Last edited by John Ruggero on 23 Dec 2015, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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