Espressivo font

[OCTO]

I have found a very beautiful textual font (for expressions) called Espressivo. Impressive.
http://www.bayard-nizet.com/Polices_en.html

[tisimst]

Agreed. I like this one very much, but I have wondered if it looks too old-fashioned for most modern users.

[OCTO]

Can we test it together with some super-contemporary score?

[Knut]

I've used this font extensively in the past. It's main problem in a contemporary context is the spacing, which is quite loose, and the crude shapes, made to look like old offset print. Pairing it with November or a similar music font would probably work quite nicely, though.

I've contemplated attempting a similar font, without the 'inky' appearance and tighter spacing. However, designing a text font on par with what is commercially available already, is a very difficult task. Both Monotype Modern and ITC Century have similar style italics, but those are not perfect for use in music.

In a perfect world I'd like to have a slightly condensed version of New Century Schoolbook, accompanied by the classic italic style similar to Espressivo. Perhaps some day…

[OCTO]

What I like with this font is what I tried to achieve with my Muzitex (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21):
1. the difference between thin and bold lines is not to huge
2. serifs are not to much curved
3. the italic angle is similar to the dynamics
4. the personality is modest, therefore easy to read

[Knut]

What I like with this font is what I tried to achieve with my Muzitex (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21):
1. the difference between thin and bold lines is not to huge
2. serifs are not to much curved
3. the italic angle is similar to the dynamics
4. the personality is modest, therefore easy to read

1. That's true, although I personally think the difference is too small, making the character's seem a bit bulky. This can make it hard to balance with a lot of music fonts. Bodoni, which has a very large contrast, is equally difficult, but in the opposite end of the scale.

2. If you're referring to the corners where the serif meets any vertical stem, I'd say they're about average.

3. Actually, there is a difference in angle between dynamics, lower case and upper case letters. It's not too much, but it can make the text seem a bit restless, depending on the character combinations.

4. I agree.

Perhaps I'm being overly critical, and don't get me wrong, I certainly commend Mr. Bayard for his efforts and imagine that kerning and spacing this font was quite a challenge. I've used it a lot for dynamics and short expressive marks with good results in the past, and as I've said, for an overall simulation of old offset print, together with a font like November, I think it would be perfect. Otherwise, I would personally use a different font at this point.

[OCTO]

I completely agree with you Knut!

Maybe, SFuML should include adequate text font, or SFuML-Text with multiple fonts that would be in artistic accordance with Bravura.
Anyway, Bravura has its own personality and therefore a textual font would be good to have!

Here are different fonts, look at them and without trying to guess, just judge it:

Screen Shot 2015-12-20 at 13.53.21.png (224 KiB) Viewed 12919 times

My comments:
1. To much round, difference between thin/bold lines to much. Requires hi-q printer.
2. Dimilar to Times, letter z "hangs". Overall good.
3. To much italicized. h turns inside; p and q - to much handmade-like
4. Similar to 3. - but feels better; c different italic angle; h turns inside; p - handmade-like; v to curved.
5. Quite fine but to much calligraphic (D/U strokes fat, L/R thin) almost handmade: a round top, h m n p q r angled bottom line, to personal.
6. Very italicized, to wide spaces, very fine musical-like symbols - f p s f z m n can be used as it is in music, old fashioned - can be applied on music.

[John Ruggero]

An acquaintance who was a wine connoisseur once offered me a choice from his extensive collection. When I told him that he would be wasting good wine on me, because I was a peasant who had grown up with home-made wine and had rarely had the stuff thereafter, he muttered something and found me a "fine" vintage from someplace other than France or the Nappa Valley. Here then is my choice:

Document1.jpg (29.27 KiB) Viewed 12906 times

[OCTO]

Is it a kind of semibold-italic, Times?
I have just small concern about not-emboldened types: how about to print small scores with it, or full scores with about 30+ staves?
Think about conductors who will stand about 1/2 meter off, and moving too!

This also applies with performing parts... We read from a big distances.
Emboldened font (again as it is with Muzitex) tends to levels out with the rest of the music, thus not disappearing. I have never regretted using that kind of font so far.
Espressivo seems to keep the black force even when printed small or read from distance.

[Knut]

I completely agree with you Knut!

Maybe, SFuML should include adequate text font, or SFuML-Text with multiple fonts that would be in artistic accordance with Bravura.
Anyway, Bravura has its own personality and therefore a textual font would be good to have!

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) A fully featured category of text characters is beyond the scope of SMuFL, I think. It would be nice if Sternberg would include a SMuFL independent italic style, matching the dynamics, tuplet numbers and octave glyphs of Bravura, but I don't think such a project would be high on their list of priorities even before their application is released. However, since Bravura is an open license font, anyone else is free to take it on.

Here are different fonts, look at them and without trying to guess, just judge it:
My comments:
1. To much round, difference between thin/bold lines to much. Requires hi-q printer.
2. Dimilar to Times, letter z "hangs". Overall good.
3. To much italicized. h turns inside; p and q - to much handmade-like
4. Similar to 3. - but feels better; c different italic angle; h turns inside; p - handmade-like; v to curved.
5. Quite fine but to much calligraphic (D/U strokes fat, L/R thin) almost handmade: a round top, h m n p q r angled bottom line, to personal.
6. Very italicized, to wide spaces, very fine musical-like symbols - f p s f z m n can be used as it is in music, old fashioned - can be applied on music.

I have similar thoughts as you do about these fonts, and I must say I'm really impressed by your attention to typographic details, despite not being a font designer yourself (as far as I know). It's composers and musicians like yourself who make sweating to perfect every single bézier curve worth it.

I would add, in defense of the Espressivo font, that this is by far my favorite style of italic for use in music, modern or otherwise. One could argue that many of the traditional font styles still most often used for time signatures, dynamics etc. is too old school for modern music. Personally though, I find them kind of timeless, and I've never been completely satisfied with the result when mixing the traditional style dynamics and other symbols with more modern text fonts like Times. This is one of the reasons why (good) plate engravings have always been more pleasing to me. Every aspect of the design, both musical symbols and text, is much more cohesive. The traditional italic style is also instantly recognizable to most (classically trained) musicians. I don't have any scientific proof of it, but I suspect reading text in this style might actually be more comfortable for them, even though this font style isn't considered to be the most legible out there.

I would love to do a matching italic style to the relevant symbols in my own font at some point (see picture of already included glyphs below), but as I've said, this will be a lot of work, and I suspect it needs to be fitted with a unique roman style. Anyway, first I need to finish what I've started.

MenuetItalicExample.png (57.53 KiB) Viewed 12889 times