[puzzle] Slur solutions 2

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John Ruggero
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[puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by John Ruggero » 03 Mar 2016, 03:15

Even though I am now quite happy with my default slur settings, the following cases are still problematic:

Case A. A slur should not be go in a direction opposite to the movement of the notes, yet in this case it seems impossible to place the slur correctly even with hand adjustment.

Cases B and C. These similar cases are not dealt with by Finale in the Slur Placement settings and must be corrected by hand, possibly as shown on the second line, or in some other way.
Problem Slurs.jpg
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The puzzle has two parts:

1. to come up with a better slur placement for case A with or without hand adjustment.

2. to come up with default computer settings that will produce better slur placement (without hand adjustment) in cases B and C, and possibly even A. The settings are NOT required to produce good results for other common slur situations; just these.
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MJCube
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by MJCube » 03 Mar 2016, 04:28

(I deleted my last post in “Slur solutions 1” since my question is answered here.) Thank you for posting these!

For case A I always prefer to flip the midline note to match the stem direction. It’s tedious to find such cases, but rewarding. I wish for software to recognize that as a default preference.

For B and C I do like the way you point toward the noteheads where possible. The difference, obviously, is made by an intervening note with stem poking at the slur. Also eighth flags make things messy. I like these alignments.

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OCTO
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by OCTO » 03 Mar 2016, 05:33

MJCube wrote:For case A I always prefer to flip the midline note to match the stem direction. It’s tedious to find such cases, but rewarding. I wish for software to recognize that as a default preference.
+1

Here is my solution. Since the puzzle excludes manual adjustments, here with the "mistake" in my settings in m.4.
shot.jpg
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OCTO
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by OCTO » 03 Mar 2016, 05:34

But if I am allowed to lift that slur, here is the result:
shot 1.jpg
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Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by Knut » 03 Mar 2016, 11:29

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to improve the default settings in Finale to accommodate these situations, without compromising others at the same time.

Here's my effort:
Skjermbilde 2016-03-03 kl. 12.18.00.png
Skjermbilde 2016-03-03 kl. 12.18.00.png (47.19 KiB) Viewed 1809 times
My solution for manually adjusting these situations is:

1. Not to overstate the angle of the slur when moving the left end point down the stem.
2. Pull the left inset point up alongside the tangent, until it's parallel with the centre point (or slightly below it).
3. Move the right inset point slightly to further to the right to compensate.
4. Move the centre point up or down to clear the staff line slightly. Be sure not to make the slur too flat. These slurs usually need to be a bit higher than the default.

Edit: My idea here is to come up with something along the lines of OCTO's results for challenge B, but to make the slur more reflective of the ascending motion.
Last edited by Knut on 03 Mar 2016, 13:53, edited 1 time in total.

Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by Knut » 03 Mar 2016, 13:47

I would add that these slurred stepwise motions just above or below the middle staff line, make a strong case for keeping the stem direction on the midline flexible, following the direction of the connected note. As shown with the last two notes, it's easier to get a satisfactory result on intervals of a third or larger.

That said, the principle for manual adjustment would be the same for larger intervals as with intervals of a second.

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John Ruggero
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by John Ruggero » 03 Mar 2016, 16:24

Thank you to those who have participated so far. I should have added in the original puzzle that it would be helpful in understanding Finale slur settings for the solutions to include the settings used to force these results.

Somehow this post was garbled originally. Sorry about that.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 03 Mar 2016, 21:55, edited 2 times in total.
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Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by Knut » 03 Mar 2016, 19:55

John Ruggero wrote:Thank you to those who have participated so far. I should have added in the original puzzle that it would be helpful in understanding Finale slur settings doings if the solutions included the settings used to force these results.
I used my default settings, but tried to outline the procedure for the results above.

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John Ruggero
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by John Ruggero » 03 Mar 2016, 21:56

Knut, I love your results and the explanation of your system of hand adjustment, which I will study carefully, but the challenge was to come up with default settings for B and C. Hand adjustment for A only.

So far, only OCTO has manage to accomplish this, and I would love to know how he did it!

And my apologies for not centering the final whole notes.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
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Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 2

Post by Knut » 03 Mar 2016, 22:37

John Ruggero wrote:Knut, I love your results and the explanation of your system of hand adjustment, which I will study carefully, but the challenge was to come up with default settings for B and C. Hand adjustment for A only.

So far, only OCTO has manage to accomplish this, and I would love to know how he did it!
I'm sorry, but I guess I don't see why you would want to set up your default settings to fit only a very limited number of cases. And especially since, in my opinion, really good results for these cases would have to involve both alterations of the slur shape as well as placement, these scenarios would always need manual work anyway.

If you're adamant about this, though, setting the vertical adjustment of slurs on the stem side to -2 spaces will get you there, I think.

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