[puzzle] Slur solutions 4

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John Ruggero
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[puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by John Ruggero » 07 Apr 2016, 20:48

This puzzle is simple. Engrave the following example from Ravel's Le Tombeau de Couperin:
Ravel Slurs.jpg
Ravel Slurs.jpg (56.18 KiB) Viewed 2252 times
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OCTO
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by OCTO » 07 Apr 2016, 21:12

What tools are allowed?
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John Ruggero
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by John Ruggero » 07 Apr 2016, 22:35

All tools allowed, except drawing with a pen or pencil on paper. The result is what counts.
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Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by Knut » 08 Apr 2016, 00:48

Here's my solution after quite a lot of twaking. I used Finale only:
Skjermbilde 2016-04-08 kl. 02.43.29.png
Skjermbilde 2016-04-08 kl. 02.43.29.png (220.79 KiB) Viewed 2238 times

Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by Knut » 08 Apr 2016, 10:29

It probably speaks for itself, but here's a breakdown of the composite slur shapes I used:
Skjermbilde 2016-04-08 kl. 11.10.40.png
Skjermbilde 2016-04-08 kl. 11.10.40.png (100.25 KiB) Viewed 2222 times
This kind of thing is a bit cumbersome to do in Finale at first, since manipulation of control points does not follow the direction of the slur, but are always based on horizontal orientation. This takes some getting used to. With a little practice, however, it's quite doable.

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OCTO
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by OCTO » 08 Apr 2016, 10:44

Knut, can you attach the .mus file (with Maestro)? And without your slurs?
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Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by Knut » 08 Apr 2016, 11:04

Sure. Here's the file with default settings and no slurs.
Attachments
LeTombeauSur.musx
(86.48 KiB) Downloaded 50 times

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John Ruggero
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by John Ruggero » 08 Apr 2016, 15:01

I had hoped that the results might be better than the original, which looks pretty lumpy to me. Congratulations, Knut! The thick and thin gradations and the over-all shape are so much better. Score 1 victory for computer engraving.

Did this exercise cause you to ponder again the size of your font's secondary clefs?
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Knut
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by Knut » 08 Apr 2016, 15:44

John Ruggero wrote:I had hoped that the results might be better than the original, which looks pretty lumpy to me. Congratulations, Knut! The thick and thin gradations and the over-all shape are so much better. Score 1 victory for computer engraving.

Did this exercise cause you to ponder again the size of your font's secondary clefs?
Thank you! I agree the original is pretty crude, although it's cut by hand into metal, so I won't judge.

Given the tight spacing conditions, the courtesy clefs could probably be a bit smaller. The originals are around 75%, I guess.

I'm still pondering the size of the dedicated glyphs in my font. Currently I have two sets; one at 66%, which is the size recommended by Gould and Ross and brought over to Bravura (SMuFL), and one at 85% with corrected positioning to touch the staff lines by default (designed after the discussion on the subject on this board). However, as long as so few scoring apps support separate glyphs for courtesy clefs, I'm not quite sure which ones will be featured in the final release.

To me, 66% is too small, but I do want to make a font that is very compatible with Bravura. LilyPond, one of the few applications which uses dedicated glyphs for courtesy clefs, has theirs at 80% and Finale (and Sibelius, I think) reduces the main glyphs to 75% for courtesy clefs by default.

The thing to remember is that unless the clef is quite small, there really is no need for a dedicated glyph. In the example above, I've used the primary glyphs at 85%, and as you probably notice, there isn't much weight reduction at that size. With a font as heavy as mine, even at 75% the difference isn't that noticeable. At 66%, though, the need for a dedicated glyph to compensate for the weight loss becomes very apparent.

The placement issue we've discussed earlier could perhaps be another reason to utilize dedicated glyphs. However, even though Finale doesn't allow vertical positioning adjustments of individual, fixed (non mid-measure) courtesy clefs, I'm hesitant to include such offsets as an inherent part of the font, because it would essentially contradict the SMuFL guidelines and compromise compatibility with applications able to handle such adjustment.
Last edited by Knut on 08 Apr 2016, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.

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John Ruggero
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Re: [puzzle] Slur solutions 4

Post by John Ruggero » 08 Apr 2016, 20:37

85% seems to large to me; 66% - 70%, too small. 75-80% is more what I am accustomed to seeing in piano music. The secondary clefs in the Durand above look like 75% to me. New glyphs are needed; no doubt about it.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

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