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Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 02 Jun 2016, 19:16
by Knut
John Ruggero wrote: For me, a tie among ledger lines obscures the pitch of the note, while one through an accidental would rarely do that.
That makes perfect sense. I do think, however, that to a certain degree this can apply to notes within the staff as well, especially in such a vertically tight context such as this. That's the reason I prefer OCTO's version even over my own. If you break the tie for the notehead, the interference with noteheads and accidentals (which does convey pitch information after all) is reduced. If the tie is moved above the notes, all interference is eliminated, and as I've said, I don't really think the tie could be mistaken for a slur in this case.

I'm certain I've seen this kind of vertical tie displacement several times before. Unfortunately I can't remember where at the moment, but I'll try to find a reference.

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 02 Jun 2016, 19:36
by erelievonen
Knut wrote:[...]If the tie is moved above the notes, all interference is eliminated, and as I've said, I don't really think the tie could be mistaken for a slur in this case.
That's basically the same as what I tried to do in my previous version, except that I also tried to maintain the connection of the tie ends to the noteheads. This resulted in a rather extreme curve for the tie, I admit, but I don't see how the tie could possibly be mistaken for a slur there either.

It is simply not possible to solve this puzzle without making some compromise somewhere. As I quite dislike the tie collisions in the other versions, for me, my previous version is the best possible one without interrupting the tie.

Allowing an interruption of the tie, I suggest the following solution. The tie curve is less extreme now, and I think it still looks like a tie. It also has minimal interference with other objects (requiring only one interruption), and the tie ends retain connection with the noteheads.
tie_puzzle_3.png
tie_puzzle_3.png (74.49 KiB) Viewed 1875 times

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 02 Jun 2016, 19:46
by OCTO
erelievonen, we are on the same boat!

Hmm.. two other solutions:
shot 6.png
shot 6.png (35 KiB) Viewed 1871 times
shot 7.png
shot 7.png (35.3 KiB) Viewed 1871 times
The second one I don't like, actually. :(

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 15:37
by George M19
Anyone interested in sharing the technique for having the tie not pass through the notehead? Is there a plug-in involved?

(In Finale)

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 20 Apr 2018, 11:13
by OCTO
George M19 wrote:
17 Apr 2018, 15:37
Anyone interested in sharing the technique for having the tie not pass through the notehead? Is there a plug-in involved?

(In Finale)
There is no a direct solution to "cut" the slur in Finale, but there are workarounds.
1. Enter with two slurs, measure attached, than fine tune them to look like they are a single one, but cut.
2. Enter a normal slur with preparation to be "cut". Than when finished, save it as PDF, than open that page in Illustrator or Inkscape, where you can really cut the slur (as I did above, but exported it from Musescore).

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 20 Apr 2018, 12:31
by George M19
ah ok, I see. Thanks, OCTO! I don't have much experience with graphic apps as I can get what I basically want in Finale, but it seems there is a great advantage here. I was considering getting an Adobe product for a while but the subscription model is really off-putting.

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 23 Apr 2018, 06:34
by OCTO
For the result above I have used Inkscape which is totally free.

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 15:58
by George M19
Thanks, I'll check it out.

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 02 Jun 2018, 14:33
by HaraldS
OCTO wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 11:13
There is no a direct solution to "cut" the slur in Finale, but there are workarounds.
1. Enter with two slurs, measure attached, than fine tune them to look like they are a single one, but cut.
2. Enter a normal slur with preparation to be "cut". Than when finished, save it as PDF, than open that page in Illustrator or Inkscape, where you can really cut the slur (as I did above, but exported it from Musescore).
3. Enter a tuplet definition which is set to hide its number and use a slur instead of a bracket. It's nicely cut, but with only one cut and it's a bit difficult to adjust, if you need the cut at a specific position.

Re: [puzzle] Two voices in one staff

Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 20:15
by OCTO
HaraldS wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 14:33

3. Enter a tuplet definition which is set to hide its number and use a slur instead of a bracket. It's nicely cut, but with only one cut and it's a bit difficult to adjust, if you need the cut at a specific position.
I am always astonished what tricks people will find in Finale in order to accomplish the goals. This will be one of my favourites!