Simplify notes

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Pentatonus
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 09:44

Simplify notes

Post by Pentatonus »

Hi there,

i wonder if there is a simplified solution to build up the following bar on beat 3 (with some articulations etc)?
Bar.jpg
Bar.jpg (8.38 KiB) Viewed 13765 times
The orginal bar with no short notes is:
Barorig.jpg
Barorig.jpg (6.03 KiB) Viewed 13765 times
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OCTO
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Location: Sweden

Re: Simplify notes

Post by OCTO »

It depends of tempo. How quickly goes one :4 ?

I think it would go like that, but some experts in the baroque ornaments should confirm.
Example of "idem"
Example of "idem"
example.png (4.64 KiB) Viewed 13755 times
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Ron

Re: Simplify notes

Post by Ron »

Why would you want to use symbols that contemporary musicians are not familiar with? When they run into modified mordents, rehearsal stops while people argue about the precise meaning and someone has to go to a music dictionary to look it up. Then they pencil it in and during the concert some can't quite make out the tiny notes they squeezed into the space and get it wrong.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Simplify notes

Post by John Ruggero »

If this is an edition of some Baroque keyboard music, then OCTO's solution is fine. If this is not Baroque keyboard music, I would use the following notation, because OCTO's symbol is only familiar to keyboard players.
Baroque Trill.jpg
Baroque Trill.jpg (16.86 KiB) Viewed 13740 times
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OCTO
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Re: Simplify notes

Post by OCTO »

Agree! The trill with appoggiatura is a much better solution.
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Pentatonus
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Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 09:44

Re: Simplify notes

Post by Pentatonus »

Thank you. @OCTO: :4 = 84 and it's not a barock piece, it's on of my ones :o
Your suggestion is good, but the trill is to long. (with playback in MuseScore)

I made a picture of a shorter one, that fits (but of course it doesn't playback):
bpt2.png
bpt2.png (5.12 KiB) Viewed 13711 times
But there's still the difficulty that Ron mentioned ...
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OCTO
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Re: Simplify notes

Post by OCTO »

Yes, "idem" stops before the next note, while trill continues.
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harpsi
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Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 10:30

Re: Simplify notes

Post by harpsi »

But beware, that sign in your example with a curved line at the left does not mean the same as the one OCTO provided.
trill.PNG
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John Ruggero
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Re: Simplify notes

Post by John Ruggero »

A good musician would stop the trill on the the fourth beat no matter what notation is used.

But if you want to use symbols and nail it down, write:
Baroque-Trill-copy.gif
Baroque-Trill-copy.gif (2.54 KiB) Viewed 13697 times
This would be one of the those cases where the trill "stops' on the upper note, against the normal rule. But of course it really doesn't.

Or do the same thing with OCTO's or your symbol. (But do use the straight line as the prefix, as Harpsi says.) However, the Baroque symbol will look anachronistic if this is a contemporary keyboard piece.

Playback through a notation program will be problematic in any of these solutions, so you might need to write it out as you have if you want an exact playback. As a matter of fact, simply writing it out might be the best solution if this is a new piece and you want an exact ornament. The symbols are used to allow players some freedom of rhythm and number of notes in the ornament. Composers write them out when they don't want to grant the player such freedom.
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