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Ties after system break

Posted: 09 Apr 2020, 12:44
by Anders Hedelin
I tried to search the forum for this topic, but found nothing. If it has been discussed before, please, someone, direct me to that thread.

I've grown increasingly aware of, and impatient with, the ugliness of Finale's ties when continuing after a system break. Here are a few examples of how they look with the program's defaults:
Ties between systems - default.PNG
Ties between systems - default.PNG (221.01 KiB) Viewed 1754 times
And here is the result of rather laborious adjustments, in Document Options, with Measure Tool, as well as manually with Special Tools:
Ties between systems - edited.PNG
Ties between systems - edited.PNG (221.84 KiB) Viewed 1754 times
All "b measures" had to be given an extra 0,1 cm space at the beginning to make the ties look less squeezed in.
In Document Options/Ties/Tie Direction "Opposing seconds" was unchecked to avoid the collisions of ties in 3 and 4.
In Tie Contour suboption the height of short-span ties was diminished to 0,12 cm (from 0,16 cm), to make them possible to place between staff lines, and to look less "Finalish".
In Ex. 1b, 3b and 4b some of the middle ties had to be manually nudged up/down with Special Tools to avoid collisions with staff lines.

This is much ado about, well perhaps not nothing, but too much ado about too little. Anyone knows about a more clever way to do this?

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 09 Apr 2020, 14:22
by Anders Hedelin
To illustrate my point further, here's an example from Henle's edition of Beethoven sonatas (engraved by hand):
Henle Beethoven Ties.png
Henle Beethoven Ties.png (12.21 KiB) Viewed 1738 times
And here's Finale's default (and ugly) version of the same:
Finale Beethoven Ties.PNG
Finale Beethoven Ties.PNG (14.96 KiB) Viewed 1741 times

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 09 Apr 2020, 14:37
by tisimst
Well, I must say that your edits are *lightyears* better than Finale’s defaults. Nicely done!

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 09 Apr 2020, 14:58
by John Ruggero
I have the same complaint, Anders, do exactly what you do to correct it, and have always wondered about a general fix. Something about the default tie settings seem to be incorrect. Perhaps you should take your question over to the Finale Forum as well?

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 09 Apr 2020, 15:18
by Anders Hedelin
I might as well take it to the other forum, possibly someone there has a fix. Anyway, thanks for the response, tisimst and John!

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 03:36
by Den
Anders Hedelin wrote:
09 Apr 2020, 14:22
To illustrate my point further, here's an example from Henle's edition of Beethoven sonatas (engraved by hand):
Henle Beethoven Ties.png
And here's Finale's default (and ugly) version of the same:
Finale Beethoven Ties.PNG
This is my short attempt.
The first explanation
Henle Beethoven Ties 1.png
and the second I moved the ties just a little bit like in the Henle example (above).
Henle Beethoven Ties 2.png
I just reading Puccini "Tosca" Ricordi,
measures just a little before coming Scarpia ,
enters the scene (No. 80, page 110).

Inside is full of similar examples..
Ties - Tosca.png

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 09:08
by Callasmaniac
Does it help if you make Document Option/Notes and Rests/Spacing before music amount larger? (Obviously you still have to tweak some tie directions with special tools).

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 13:50
by OCTO
Callasmaniac wrote:
30 Aug 2020, 09:08
Does it help if you make Document Option/Notes and Rests/Spacing before music amount larger? (Obviously you still have to tweak some tie directions with special tools).
Yes, that is a solution. In the Henle example above, they made 1,75 spaces for ties only.

Re: Ties after system break

Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 16:51
by Anders Hedelin
This is a suggestion I got from the Finale forum:
Ties after a system break.PNG