[Finale] The most complex orc. score?

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OCTO
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[Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by OCTO »

Hello everyone.
I wonder what is the most complex orchestral score you have done, and what problems you have faced?
I know David has operas in Finale, how does it work with such numerous pages, staves, divisis etc.?
Questions are: what is important to think about in advance when doing such scores in Finale?
You are welcome of submitting some pages/snippets if you wish.

Thanks!
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David Ward
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Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by David Ward »

Initial response, perhaps I'll provide something more detailed and with music examples later.

The larger scores I have done in Finale (unlike some of my earlier, and perhaps future pieces) have had mostly fairly traditional notation, so complications have been of scale rather than of notation (the odd moment apart). There are always difficulties and frustrations which I encounter, so each time I try a slightly different approach in hope…

I think my general conclusion is that it's usually a good idea to split any large project into separate files divided into rational sections, such as scenes, acts, movements &c. However, in the first six months of 2012 I both composed in manuscript and engraved in Finale a 90 minute piece for six singers and 23 instrumentalists as a single large (but not preposterously large) file. This has clear advantages as far as linked parts &c are concerned, but would be risky and probably eventually unmanageable with much larger forces. My present large project (being written alongside smaller, more immediate ones) is, on the other hand, expected to be in 12 separate Finale files.

In Finale a file needs to be set up with all the staves that might eventually be used during its course. eg If the violas are to be divided onto 8 staves at some point for a few bars, but throughout the rest of the file they are in unison, there will nevertheless have to be 8 viola staves for the entire file, empty ones being hidden on a system by system basis later. This is a great nuisance, so if Dorico turns out to handle things more easily…

There's a lot more that I could say on the subject, but this should do for a start.
Last edited by David Ward on 04 Aug 2016, 21:12, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 25.5 & F 26.3.1
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David Ward
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Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by David Ward »

Here (if I manage to attach the PDFs successfully) are two utterly different pages from my current large project, which I think illustrate (or at least suggest) some of the problems mentioned above. Note this is a 'composer's fair-copy in Finale,' as I make no claims to be anything approaching a pro-engraver, who I'm sure would be able to lay everything out very much more efficiently.

This is not by any means the most complex or largest score I've prepared in Finale (let alone in manuscript). However, my most complex Finale effort to-date (worked on from 2004-2011) is currently still in a 'Mussorgsky-like state of total shambles' and thus not suitable for illustration, although for very much larger forces as well as being at risk of running into overtime if/when performed. I think that even with shared staves (Flutes 1, 2 &c) there are systems of more than 50 staves and far more staves than that in scroll view to allow for divided strings &c &c (mentioned as an inconvenience above).

(p77 :4 = 66 & p102 :4 = 96)
Attachments
p77.pdf
(80.95 KiB) Downloaded 461 times
p102.pdf
(106.08 KiB) Downloaded 438 times
Finale 25.5 & F 26.3.1
Mac OS 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
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OCTO
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Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by OCTO »

David, your use of Finale is excellent - what I mean this engraved score!

This is my reflection: Finale is tedious when you have numerous divisis, numerous muta-in, numerous movements.
For instance if you make some adjustments in stave distances, than when they are move to another system it is reset or used differently. MuseScore has an excellent tool, that is the Spacing, so basically you put spacing at places where staves are crossed, and so well spaced music is always identically spaced regardless where you move measure-stacks.

A question to engravers that deals with numerous staves (large orchestra files, numerous divisis):
Do you first work in Scroll View and than when everything is typed, move to Page View? :idea:
RMK
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Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by RMK »

A question to engravers that deals with numerous staves (large orchestra files, numerous divisis):
Do you first work in Scroll View and than when everything is typed, move to Page View?

------------------------------------------------

Yes. Staff sets can be a big help.
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OCTO
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Re: RE: Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by OCTO »

RMK wrote:A question to engravers that deals with numerous staves (large orchestra files, numerous divisis):
Do you first work in Scroll View and than when everything is typed, move to Page View?

------------------------------------------------

Yes. Staff sets can be a big help.
The exact same question I have too!
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
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tisimst
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Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by tisimst »

OCTO wrote:A question to engravers that deals with numerous staves (large orchestra files, numerous divisis):
Do you first work in Scroll View and than when everything is typed, move to Page View?
Yes, I've found it a very effective process! In a way, this is quite similar to the philosophy of the Dorico work-flow (correct me if I'm speaking out of place, Daniel S.), except Dorico will be more.

First, input all the musical content and don't worry about formatting at all (i.e., "Write" mode). This step would include adding any extra staves necessary for splitting/joining instruments around divisi passages.

Then, once all the content is in place, switch to Page View for the sole purpose of formatting and laying out the score (i.e., "Engrave" mode).

I think this work flow is an excellent one since you keep in mind that you are focused on one aspect of the creation process at a time rather than worrying about tweaking as you go.
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OCTO
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Re: [Finale] The most complex orc. score?

Post by OCTO »

I think that working in the Scroll View has problem with spacing, so numerous things will look differently in the Page View. That is what I remember, but I might have misunderstood how to do it properly.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
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