Dorico 1.2 released

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by John Ruggero » 09 Dec 2017, 03:26

Knut, is there still a problem with the basic slur shape? And could you list some aspects of Dorico that prevent you from switching over completely?
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Florian
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by Florian » 09 Dec 2017, 11:26

I'm not Knut. But if you don't mind: yes, the basic slur shape can't be modified yet. I think it's unlikely that this is changed in the near future.
I, for one, can live with this limitation in projects where there's not much time for engraving subtleties. Dorico's superior default note spacing (and note spacing tool) easily outweighs this.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by John Ruggero » 09 Dec 2017, 16:35

Thanks, Florian.
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Florian
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by Florian » 11 Dec 2017, 15:56

On the topic of Dorico's slurs, especially the basic slur shape – Daniel Spreadbury allowed me to cite him from an email he wrote to me today:
We do know about this, of course, and it's a consequence of drawing the slur with two lines: a fixed width "skeleton" line and a tapered path over the top. The reason we do this is because calculating the correct angle for the sharp ends of the slurs is non-trivial, though of course it can be done.

We will address this in future, for certain – there are a number of improvements to slur drawing and positioning that we would like to make.
This sounds good to me.

In addition to this, for all those who are unfamiliar with handling slurs in Dorico: Dorico provides as much control over the curvature and angle of slurs as Finale. Considering that you can create (beautiful) flat slurs, and even change the thickness individually for each slur, there's even more control in Dorico. The downside is that, as things stand now, manual adjustments to slurs are necessary far more often than in Finale.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by John Ruggero » 11 Dec 2017, 16:15

Thanks again, Florian. That is very encouraging.
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Knut
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by Knut » 14 Dec 2017, 01:20

Florian wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 15:56
On the topic of Dorico's slurs, especially the basic slur shape – Daniel Spreadbury allowed me to cite him from an email he wrote to me today:
We do know about this, of course, and it's a consequence of drawing the slur with two lines: a fixed width "skeleton" line and a tapered path over the top. The reason we do this is because calculating the correct angle for the sharp ends of the slurs is non-trivial, though of course it can be done.

We will address this in future, for certain – there are a number of improvements to slur drawing and positioning that we would like to make.
This sounds good to me.

In addition to this, for all those who are unfamiliar with handling slurs in Dorico: Dorico provides as much control over the curvature and angle of slurs as Finale. Considering that you can create (beautiful) flat slurs, and even change the thickness individually for each slur, there's even more control in Dorico. The downside is that, as things stand now, manual adjustments to slurs are necessary far more often than in Finale.
Thanks for sharing this, Florian!

That sounds good to me too.
John Ruggero wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 03:26
Knut, is there still a problem with the basic slur shape? And could you list some aspects of Dorico that prevent you from switching over completely?
There are fewer and fewer such aspects, fortunately. At this point the main functionality I'm missing is guitar tablature and guitar-specific fingering. The last of these isn't really a fair complaint, since there is no specific functionality for this in Finale either, but it is easier to set fingerings using metatools in Finale, than with the text tool in Dorico. Anyway, seeing the brilliant implementation of general purpose fingering in Dprocp !.2, I'm very optimistic that the feature will be just as good when it's eventually included.

Dorico is also lacking an equivalent to smart shapes in Finale, which makes drawing lines and brackets a rather hacky affair.
There is, as of yet, no way to adjust the thickness of beams, and entered beams (on the same staff) is not possible for intervals smaller than a third. I'm able to live without both of these for the most part, but they are crucial in certain kinds of music.

I also have issues with the size of the interface, which demands way too much space in my opinion. Working at a higher screen resolution mitigates the problem somewhat, but it is impractical.

Other than that, most problems are simply related to differences in workflow demands, which I'm fine with, as long as I get the same or better results.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by John Ruggero » 14 Dec 2017, 13:52

Thanks, Knut. The change in workflow probably wouldn't bother me either; in fact, it would be interesting to try something new, but, as you say, it's results that count. For that reason, the items you listed completely rule out Dorico for me at this point, unfortunately.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
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Florian
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by Florian » 07 Jan 2018, 22:10

Florian wrote:
11 Dec 2017, 15:56
On the topic of Dorico's slurs, especially the basic slur shape – Daniel Spreadbury allowed me to cite him from an email he wrote to me today:
We do know about this, of course, and it's a consequence of drawing the slur with two lines: a fixed width "skeleton" line and a tapered path over the top. The reason we do this is because calculating the correct angle for the sharp ends of the slurs is non-trivial, though of course it can be done.

We will address this in future, for certain – there are a number of improvements to slur drawing and positioning that we would like to make.
This sounds good to me.

In addition to this, for all those who are unfamiliar with handling slurs in Dorico: Dorico provides as much control over the curvature and angle of slurs as Finale. Considering that you can create (beautiful) flat slurs, and even change the thickness individually for each slur, there's even more control in Dorico. The downside is that, as things stand now, manual adjustments to slurs are necessary far more often than in Finale.
Just to let all of you know: Daniel Spreadbury told me that slurs will be drawn as a single path with no skeleton line in the next release of Dorico. The 'basic slur shape issue' will be history soon.
I'm astounded again and again at how responsive they are to user requests. Not something I'm used to from Finale.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by John Ruggero » 07 Jan 2018, 23:34

Sounds great! Thanks very much, Florian.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
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OCTO
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Re: Dorico 1.2 released

Post by OCTO » 08 Jan 2018, 13:43

Florian wrote:
07 Jan 2018, 22:10
slurs will be drawn as a single path with no skeleton line
Can you explain it further? I can't visualise what you say... :(
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Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

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