Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
mducharme
Posts: 19
Joined: 22 Dec 2016, 01:22

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by mducharme » 06 Sep 2019, 04:50

I had a student who used Lilypond once a few years ago, a better student than most in terms of capability, and quite intelligent. He was stuck on Lilypond because he heard from so many others it was better and was convinced that it should do a better job for him, and stubbornly refused to consider anything else. Unfortunately it seemed to be twice as much work for him to engrave his scores compared to students using more traditional notation software, and so he didn't fare as well in the course as he should have. He told us about how many hours he spent just trying to adjust simple formatting things we asked him to fix. Less capable students who used MuseScore received better marks.

I have no doubt that Lilypond is powerful and that you can do a lot with it and get great results quickly - if you really really know what you are doing. For 99% of people out there, that is not going to be true. Don't let fanboy-ish expectations lead you astray.

MuseScore is pretty decent and is manageable. Finale, Sibelius and Dorico (especially) are great. Lilypond? SCORE? Unless you are a Lilypond wizard, not unless you want to have to put in 3 times the amount of work anybody else would to engrave the same score.

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OCTO
Posts: 1208
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Location: Sweden

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by OCTO » 06 Sep 2019, 05:16

mducharme wrote:
06 Sep 2019, 04:50
I have no doubt that Lilypond is powerful and that you can do a lot with it and get great results quickly - if you really really know what you are doing. For 99% of people out there, that is not going to be true.
I agree with the most of what is said before/above, my initial understanding is that you are very interested in programming per se, and that using such software is not problem for you (using SCORE in DOS wow). Some people here really do not like visual approach to the notation, I believed you were one of them.
Frankly speaking, since you work alone and with music framing 19 century I believe whatever you take you will be able to make good scores, yet the more important is who makes scores not the software. Look at this example in Finale by wess-music viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46&p=643#p613
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

benwiggy
Posts: 253
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy » 06 Sep 2019, 06:44

I agree that it is the user who decides when the work is finished, and a good engraver can be exacting in any software. But computers are here to do the work for us, not to provide us with more work.

Consider Dorico's new star feature: playing in chords to several different parts at once, and having them appear condensed on the score and separate in the parts automatically. This is exactly what computers should be doing for us. Learning a code to 'meet the computer half-way' is something was necessary 40 years ago, when computers were not as powerful. When I think of the years I've wasted in Finale dragging stuff around, just to stop things colliding, or to space things out evenly.....

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Schneider
Posts: 76
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 06:50
Location: Paris

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by Schneider » 06 Sep 2019, 18:18

benwiggy wrote:
06 Sep 2019, 06:44
[...]
Consider Dorico's new star feature: playing in chords to several different parts at once, and having them appear condensed on the score and separate in the parts automatically. This is exactly what computers should be doing for us.
[...]
Actually LilyPond is doing this... since the first releases... ;)
~Pierre

benwiggy
Posts: 253
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy » 06 Sep 2019, 19:17

How do you play music in? I thought it was all text? And it does automatic condensing of parts?

mducharme
Posts: 19
Joined: 22 Dec 2016, 01:22

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by mducharme » 06 Sep 2019, 20:17

He's talking about this I think: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documenta ... same-staff

You would have to manually override the markings for it to be really usable - it doesn't appear to do things like 1. 2. or 1.2. - only Solo vs a2. It looks to be quite basic compared to the Dorico function.

MalteM
Posts: 21
Joined: 07 Aug 2018, 18:26

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by MalteM » 07 Sep 2019, 08:14

mducharme wrote:
06 Sep 2019, 20:17
You would have to manually override the markings for it to be really usable - it doesn't appear to do things like 1. 2. or 1.2. - only Solo vs a2.
Overriding the markings is easy:

Code: Select all

\version "2.19.83"

\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    soloText = "1."
    soloIIText = "2."
    aDueText = "1.2."
  }
}

\partcombine
\relative {
  c'2 d e f R1 b2 c d e
}
\relative {
  c'2 d R1 g2 a d, c b a
}
partcombine.png
partcombine.png (8.9 KiB) Viewed 422 times
You can place these settings in a global \layout block (as I did above) or even in a house style include file. However, they can be changed for single staves (f.e. for 3rd and 4th horns or 3rd trombone and tuba) and at any time in a piece too.
It looks to be quite basic compared to the Dorico function.
It has almost no sense of “context” or even “musical phrases”, yes. You would expect rests instead of Solo markings in the example above. Of course you can tweak the output by using \partcombineApart, \partcombineChords etc. Dorico’s solution seems to be a bit smarter from what I’ve read on scoringnotes, but I haven’t seen a real-world example yet.

LilyPond’s partcombine cannot do automatic divisi on multiple staves; however, there has been some discussion how that could be done on the mailing lists in the last year.

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OCTO
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Location: Sweden

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by OCTO » 07 Sep 2019, 08:42

I am astonished both by Lilypond and Dorico now.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

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