Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
mducharme
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by mducharme »

The NoteAbility Pro developer is my thesis supervisor :)

He is actually at least partially switching to Dorico for his own work, but is continuing NAP development due to the existing user base that relies on it.

NAP is very good software, but I am a Windows user. You can probably get better examples from his own scores rather than the ones he uses as examples for NAP: https://www.opusonemusic.net/Keith/scores.html

benwiggy
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy »

mducharme wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 06:10
The NoteAbility Pro developer is my thesis supervisor :)
As I said earlier, it is an extraordinary achievement for one person: more impressive than Encore. I wish I'd heard about it earlier. But its future is sadly in doubt, unless he open-sources it and persuade others to take up the mantle.

One thing is clear: we are blessed to have so many apps that can achieve such high quality results: MuseScore, being free, is particularly outstanding and obviously the bar that all commercial software must surpass. In some respects, the app we use is largely irrelevant. If any one of them should stop working tomorrow, we can export as XML and carry on in another one.

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OCTO
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by OCTO »

mducharme wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 06:10
The NoteAbility Pro developer is my thesis supervisor
Nice to hear mducharme! You can perhaps welcome him to our forum!

His examples strikingly reminds me of Finale, I don't know why. It seems that the objects and lines are manually positioned very frequently with a great chance to get misplaced. I think this is what made Sibelius to take over Finale, and finally Dorico will take over Sibelius.

Cannot agree more with benwiggy.
John Ruggero wrote:
11 Jul 2020, 20:19
Here is the second example with the fathered beaming entirely in Finale., The MS flaired from three beams to four beams rather than 5, which I think looks better, so I went with four.
It is indeed a very beautiful example in Finale, John!
I abandoned Finale at the very early stage, after I compared the screen output with MuseScore. It looked much smoother in MS, than in Finale. But your example shows that everything is possible in good hands!
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by John Ruggero »

Thank you, OCTO! Joining the three beams to the four feathered ones was difficult for someone like me who has zero experience with feathered beaming. It required the use of the several beam tools and with more experience done more easily and could look much better. I am sure that Wess can join them perfectly. Having then made a template, one would simply apply it to all the other cases, because changing the width of the whole didn't seem to bother it.

Den, and mducharme and benwiggy, I agree that NoteAbility Pro is an extraordinary achievement for one person and I kept thinking: if one guy can come up with this very clever stuff, why can't whole companies do better? It bears out my pet theory that the greatest works of mankind are the works of single individuals who don't have to deal with committees that stifle their creativity.

And I am glad they fixed this glaring staccato dot glitch and may now try NAP3.

I am also glad that we have all these different products to use, yet they all have their flaws, as far as I am concerned. I remain puzzled as to why a great notational product has yet to appear. Given my pet theory above, it would require a first class musician with expertise in every style and technical area, who is also a first class programmer and designer, and a few helpers who don't get in his or her way.
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OCTO
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by OCTO »

Just a thought: maybe Keith A. Hamel (developer of NoteAbility) could join Dorico or Musescore teams?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

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Den
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by Den »

John Ruggero wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 12:38
Thank you, OCTO! Joining the three beams to the four feathered ones was difficult for someone like me who has zero experience with feathered beaming. It required the use of the several beam tools and with more experience done more easily and could look much better. I am sure that Wess can join them perfectly. Having then made a template, one would simply apply it to all the other cases, because changing the width of the whole didn't seem to bother it.

Den, and mducharme and benwiggy, I agree that NoteAbility Pro is an extraordinary achievement for one person and I kept thinking: if one guy can come up with this very clever stuff, why can't whole companies do better? It bears out my pet theory that the greatest works of mankind are the works of single individuals who don't have to deal with committees that stifle their creativity.

And I am glad they fixed this glaring staccato dot glitch and may now try NAP3.

I am also glad that we have all these different products to use, yet they all have their flaws, as far as I am concerned. I remain puzzled as to why a great notational product has yet to appear. Given my pet theory above, it would require a first class musician with expertise in every style and technical area, who is also a first class programmer and designer, and a few helpers who don't get in his or her way.
Dear John, you have great ideas and it reminded me of a recent time when I was 100% thinking about these things too!!!
It would be good to consider a new project. :idea:
Yes OCTO, I would be very glad if Mr. Keith A. Hamel joined the forum.
John, your and our question remains, if such software can be done by only one person, and not a corporation / company with a lot of people,
then we should all ask ourselves what a lot of smart people from this forum could do, right?
Newer software (and updates) is always somehow slower and slower in operation ...
Somehow it seems to me that the old school has advantages in terms of understanding what is more important in working with the user.
Last edited by Den on 12 Jul 2020, 15:44, edited 1 time in total.

benwiggy
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy »

John Ruggero wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 12:38
I remain puzzled as to why a great notational product has yet to appear.
Because notation has as many exceptions as rules. It is an evolved, inconsistent, human language; and that's something that computers struggle with. And, you only have to look at forums of any notation apps to see that different people want different things.

I dare say that Note Ability Inc could have done with some people marketing the product, to expand the userbase; people to provide support; and more people than one to do the development.

Many great achievements were organised by committees: The text of the King James Bible being one. There are countless examples of co-operation and teamwork producing far greater results than individuals.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by John Ruggero »

benwiggy wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 15:43
Many great achievements were organised by committees: The text of the King James Bible being one. There are countless examples of co-operation and teamwork producing far greater results than individuals
It's just my pet theory and one that is not going to be settled now or needs to be, but for me the greatest achievements are those of Euclid, Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, Shakespeare, Rembrandt, Bach. Mozart, Beethoven, Maxwell, Einstein, Heisenberg, Feynman, Crick and Watson, etc. all the great innovators and consolidators who, working alone have moved mankind forward with giant leaps and upon whose achievements teams and committees build their own great achievements.

By all means Dorico and Finale should hire that NAP guy! But seriously, what are the chances?
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John Ruggero
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by John Ruggero »

Den, thank you very much for your compliment.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

benwiggy
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Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy »

John Ruggero wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 16:20
Crick and Watson, etc. who, working alone
Crick and Watson not the best example of an individual working alone, for at least three reasons.

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