Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
mducharme
Posts: 30
Joined: 22 Dec 2016, 01:22

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by mducharme »

OCTO wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 08:50
His examples strikingly reminds me of Finale, I don't know why. It seems that the objects and lines are manually positioned very frequently with a great chance to get misplaced. I think this is what made Sibelius to take over Finale, and finally Dorico will take over Sibelius.
Yes, I think this is a result of the program not trying to enforce some kind of correct musical structure. His thinking with the program was to allow you to do seemingly incorrect notation (for instance, five consecutive quarter notes in a 4/4 bar) since there may need to be some cases in which that is required. This approach tries to be as flexible as possible, and I think this is why it relies more on manual positioning. I can see that as a double edged sword since it would be great for more advanced users who know exactly what correct and incorrect notation is, but for younger composers (ex. first year or two of university or younger) it might lead to more potential mistakes.

Apparently, there are also a few ways in which NAP can also be inflexible. I wrote a piece a few years ago in Dorico for an unusual ensemble, and it was being played by another ensemble early this year, and the conductor requested a different score order because they wanted the staves ordered top down to match the physical seating arrangement of performers left to right (and the last conductor requested a different order for the same reason). I was able to accommodate the request pretty easily, just took a few minutes. Keith told me that it was fortunate I had done it in Dorico, that if I had used NoteAbility Pro, it would have taken many hours to accommodate the request because it doesn't let you change score order once you create the score. But in general, NAP is extremely flexible.

He is a big fan of Dorico and is impressed by it, and feels it is the most promising notation program to come along in recent memory. He has done a revised version of one of his previous pieces (older NAP version https://www.opusonemusic.net/Keith/scor ... iScore.pdf) in Dorico (Dorico revised version not yet posted online) - it is supposed to be performed this fall but that performance is in doubt with COVID-19.
Last edited by mducharme on 12 Jul 2020, 21:26, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 1727
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by John Ruggero »

You're right, benwiggy. I shouldn't have included Crick and Watson, because discoveries in applied science are not at the same level as those in the theoretical area and almost always a group effort.

I was thinking that a duo working in a close symbiotic relationship might be the exceptional case, as long as each stays in their own special area like George and Ira Gerswhin. Given the great number of skills required to produce a music notational product, a musician/programmer duo might be the best alternative to a lone creator.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 12 Jul 2020, 20:01, edited 1 time in total.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

User avatar
composerjk
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Jun 2016, 22:22
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by composerjk »

mducharme wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 06:10
The NoteAbility Pro developer is my thesis supervisor :)

He is actually at least partially switching to Dorico for his own work, but is continuing NAP development due to the existing user base that relies on it.

NAP is very good software, but I am a Windows user. You can probably get better examples from his own scores rather than the ones he uses as examples for NAP: https://www.opusonemusic.net/Keith/scores.html
Before Dorico came along, I had been considering NoteAbility Pro and quite interested in it for a while. Also around that time (or maybe it was earlier), it seemed that Keith was shifting away from primary development on it. At least that's my vague recollection. Thanks for the update.
Typeface designer, Composer, Pianist, Analog synths, Dancer
https://1403.slantedhall.com/ | https://slantedhall.com/

Florian
Posts: 86
Joined: 31 Dec 2016, 15:34

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by Florian »

John Ruggero wrote:
12 Jul 2020, 20:00
Given the great number of skills required to produce a music notational product, a musician/programmer duo might be the best alternative to a lone creator.
Programming is not that foreign a creative activity for many musicians. In fact it requires skills that many of us have: mathematical thinking, the ability to work on complex structures in your mind, discipline and self-organization, a keen eye for details, the ability to overcome great frustration.

But I agree that at least two developers are required for a program that people can actually use, because you need a UI designer. Good programmers are rarely good at that.

There already is an open-source software with extremely powerful layout algorithms. But the Lilypond developers simply refuse to waste their time on building a GUI and I can understand them very well. Sadly, that's why Lilypond will never be a viable alternative for most users.

User avatar
Den
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by Den »

I just managed to reinstall the MacOSX emulation in Windows.
And I installed NAP v3.205 64-bit, so now I'm checking if it works at all ...
It was very difficult to synchronize the new Catalina MacOSX to work together with Windows, there were problems with the installation ...
There are small problems with refreshing the screen in the emulator, but it is possible in emulation, there are also small tricks for these things :-)
For now, I'm checking NAP3.205! :-)
To begin with, I can say that there are many positive changes in the way of input and editing ...

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1495
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by OCTO »

Den wrote:
16 Jul 2020, 03:49
I just managed to reinstall the MacOSX emulation in Windows.
OT: I have bought a brand new Lenovo computer (desktop, cheapest) in order to use it with Finale. On MacOS, Finale is extremely slow with large scores (+200 pages, complex music), and also my copyists use Windows too. I think it is the best, but not cheapest, way to use Windows. :) Pehaps you can find a cheap second hand PC. Even an old one running Windows 7 is great for Finale (and perhaps NAP).
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

User avatar
Den
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by Den »

OCTO wrote:
16 Jul 2020, 09:11
Den wrote:
16 Jul 2020, 03:49
I just managed to reinstall the MacOSX emulation in Windows.
OT: I have bought a brand new Lenovo computer (desktop, cheapest) in order to use it with Finale. On MacOS, Finale is extremely slow with large scores (+200 pages, complex music), and also my copyists use Windows too. I think it is the best, but not cheapest, way to use Windows. :) Pehaps you can find a cheap second hand PC. Even an old one running Windows 7 is great for Finale (and perhaps NAP).
That is my old laptop: Acer Aspire 8951G with i7, 18.1",16GB and inside two graphic cards 2GB NVidia + Intel HD Graphics3000
Yes, you are right about speed Win and Mac about Finale and also other music programs...but...I work with two systems at the same time > on one machine .

User avatar
Den
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by Den »

OCTO wrote:
16 Jul 2020, 09:11
...
Even an old one running Windows 7 is great for Finale (and perhaps NAP).
OCTO, I forgot to say that NAP is programmed for MacOS >only...therefore I use the MacOS emulator directly in Windows. Not the best solution but ... what's there is .. Finale and Sib. are also here ... but if I need something different I use the rest tools... ;-)

benwiggy
Posts: 467
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy »

Den wrote:
19 Jul 2020, 12:35
therefore I use the MacOS emulator directly in Windows. Not the best solution but ...
Legally, running MacOS on non-Apple hardware is a breach of the user licence, even in a VM.

benwiggy
Posts: 467
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Dorico/Lilypond/SCORE?

Post by benwiggy »

Interestingly, NoteAbility Pro does not seem to be ramping down development: there's a version for iPad now available. I bought just to have a go. It's not going to win any UI prizes, but there's a lot of functions, certainly.

Post Reply