Notation program...

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
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Den
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Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Notation program...

Post by Den »

Dear members,

I have an idea that may not have really been achieved at the moment, or I will at least try to say my idea briefly.
Let's say...
If you had the opportunity, and if you had an idea in your head for the main layout with all the main functions - a notation program, how do you think or want the same program to look or how that program must work?
Maybe my idea is good or not, maybe is impossible, I know it is very complicated and very demanding, but I think that many of us can have fantastic suggestions for knowing the matter itself in notation but also in other segments...

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John Ruggero
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Re: Notation program...

Post by John Ruggero »

This is a great idea for a thread, Den. What would one's fantasy music notation program be like...

I hope members respond. I would need some time to think about it. Probably a combination of the best features of Finale and Dorico.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
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Den
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Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

Yes John. Yes. I was also thinking about a combination of several programs, in fact, all the best of all. Even if the functions are more efficient and faster, so that the user takes as few steps as possible to the desired result, it means much simpler, faster and more direct access. I think the logic should be even simpler in operation. It can happen that sometimes the user searches for a solution for a very long time and does something that is approximate, but not in the way the user's logic does, but in the way that the program itself imposes its "technical" logic on it. Those things should be set up much more logically. Direct control without exits e.g. from Edit to Engrave or to Play. Support all formats and not just half. No duplication of commands. A completely new programming environment and some solutions that will work with much simpler logic and intuition as imagined by the user. About ten years ago, I had something in mind about the very logic of such a program. Today's software generally takes a lot of time to learn the possibilities and should be the opposite. You might even make the program have the ability to intelligently learn user functions and create commands of your choice, from installation, connection to the net and cooperation with all the same installed program in the world - without Cloud or similar net environments! That is all possible today. Maybe my ideas are unattainable but I am not saying this in vain, but I am following many other technologies that have developed and today the technological possibilities are great. Such software must have a completely new and super fast program code that is not loaded by the system or new add-ons and that will be maximally optimized. Today we have software that every time a new update is done, it gets slower and slower instead of being faster and more efficient.

benwiggy
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Re: Notation program...

Post by benwiggy »

The trouble is that each user wants to do 1000 different things. So the most efficient way to do them ALL is to have 3 steps: the first is one is a choice of 10 things; the next is another choice of ten things that depend on your previous choice; and the third step is one of ten that follow on from the each of previous 10.

But you'll get a bunch of users on a forum saying "Why do I have to do 3 steps to do this one easy task? Why can't I do it in 1 step?" So then you make the more common tasks take fewer steps, and the less common tasks take more steps. Then you get users complaining "Why are tuplets so difficult?" And so on.

I'm very glad that people are employed to think all day about these things, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

DatOrganistTho
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Re: Notation program...

Post by DatOrganistTho »

benwiggy wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 14:38
The trouble is that each user wants to do 1000 different things. So the most efficient way to do them ALL is to have 3 steps: the first is one is a choice of 10 things; the next is another choice of ten things that depend on your previous choice; and the third step is one of ten that follow on from the each of previous 10.

But you'll get a bunch of users on a forum saying "Why do I have to do 3 steps to do this one easy task? Why can't I do it in 1 step?" So then you make the more common tasks take fewer steps, and the less common tasks take more steps. Then you get users complaining "Why are tuplets so difficult?" And so on.

I'm very glad that people are employed to think all day about these things, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I would agree with you, and then add: We are biologically wired to focus on the bad over the good. It has protected us in ancient past, and it protects us from all kinds of trouble. But, when we interface with a program and find flaws with it, we inherently look to those flaws to justify our comfort (or lack thereof) within a given system. So, yes, things that tape two or three steps to do for a composer often become a "why?" versus things that are quietly done in the background to save time in unrecognized ways. The struggle is an uphill battle both ways.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Notation program...

Post by John Ruggero »

For me the best notation product would have greater capability and flexibility than anything available now coupled with the possibility of tailoring this to what is actually needed. In some cases, the program could be in artificial intelligence mode and do everything automatically. in others, every aspect of the AI could be turned off independently and left to the user.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
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http://www.cantilenapress.com

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OCTO
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Re: Notation program...

Post by OCTO »

Den wrote:
25 Jul 2020, 18:22
Dear members,

I have an idea that may not have really been achieved at the moment, or I will at least try to say my idea briefly.
Let's say...
If you had the opportunity, and if you had an idea in your head for the main layout with all the main functions - a notation program, how do you think or want the same program to look or how that program must work?
Maybe my idea is good or not, maybe is impossible, I know it is very complicated and very demanding, but I think that many of us can have fantastic suggestions for knowing the matter itself in notation but also in other segments...
I need only one software with the quantum AI that would turn my manuscript into a bärenreiter-quality-score in a minute.

The only feature I miss in all current software is called "do not touch what I did" and "do the rest perfectly in accordance to engraving rules".

EDIT: I haven't seen John's answer, I jumped to answer immediately after I read the topic. But I see we are aligned pretty well!
EDIT 2: I don't use playback. Here is my answer only for the pure notation.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

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Den
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

OCTO wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 20:53
Den wrote:
25 Jul 2020, 18:22
Dear members,

I have an idea that may not have really been achieved at the moment, or I will at least try to say my idea briefly.
Let's say...
If you had the opportunity, and if you had an idea in your head for the main layout with all the main functions - a notation program, how do you think or want the same program to look or how that program must work?
Maybe my idea is good or not, maybe is impossible, I know it is very complicated and very demanding, but I think that many of us can have fantastic suggestions for knowing the matter itself in notation but also in other segments...
I need only one software with the quantum AI that would turn my manuscript into a bärenreiter-quality-score in a minute.

The only feature I miss in all current software is called "do not touch what I did" and "do the rest perfectly in accordance to engraving rules".

EDIT: I haven't seen John's answer, I jumped to answer immediately after I read the topic. But I see we are aligned pretty well!
EDIT 2: I don't use playback. Here is my answer only for the pure notation.
Hmm ... "don't touch what I did", and "do the rest perfectly according to the rules of engraving"
it may only exist in old Score, Graphire or similar software.
Perhaps these ideas can be well implemented in some completely different new software with much faster and stronger logical rules when engraving sheet music. AI must have a strong logic that it translates in advance from the mind of the musician in mathematics, geometry, physics, design and especially notation rules. Dorico is well on its way to becoming one of these programs, but if it is achieved that it does not slow down every time something new is added to it and especially if it is many-page editing it becomes quite so slow. This is the primary thing that one such program must have. Speed, logic and a more natural intuitiveness between the user and the central code in the program. When I just think of the old Acorn RISC OS computer and the old version of Sibelius. Such ideas were long lost in the fog ... and pushed into a different perspective in working with the notation program.
Do you know or guess which bärenreiter notation program you work with?

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OCTO
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Re: Notation program...

Post by OCTO »

SCORE or LilyPond can perhaps do the things perfectly well in accordance with what I need, but I also need working in a team, sometimes with time pressure. Finding adequate free copyists that work in the above mentioned software is very hard, comparing to Finale or Sibelius.
Den wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 21:59
Do you know or guess which bärenreiter notation program you work with?
I have mentioned Bärenreiter as a high quality music publisher, some new scores of Schott could be also mentioned.
I guess that they work today in SCORE or in Finale. I haven't seen a Sibelius made score so far by Bärenreiter.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

RMK
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 12:12

Re: Notation program...

Post by RMK »

At least one Bärenreiter edition was made with Musescore. It was a J.S.Bach piano work, but not remembering which one.

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