Notation program...

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
Rafael Velasco
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Jun 2020, 13:23

Re: Notation program...

Post by Rafael Velasco »

Hi odod,

I think that at the moment there is no way to get that centered beam without a time consuming workaround. Similar cases have been discussed in the Dorico Forum so i hope some more flexibility in this area will come in a future update.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=109993

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=155103

That said, if you need to do that now, you'd have to add another voice to fake the last 16th in the centered beam, enter the note as a quarter in the same rythmic position as the double stem F, in engrave mode then move this quarter to a voice column different from the other notes at the same rythmic position, and after that move the note to the right using the voice column X offset in the properties panel untill the notehead is aligned with the last 16th.
In write mode attach two horizontal lines to the last 16th. these will make the beam. In engrave mode change the line body style to "solid line (thick)", the start und end caps to what you need and move the lines (first with the mouse and the fine tuning with the numeric values in the properties panel).
I'm attaching the Dorico file so you can see there what i mean.
centered beam problem.jpg
centered beams problem Brahms intermezzo.zip
(568.4 KiB) Downloaded 14 times

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odod
Posts: 169
Joined: 25 Nov 2015, 15:10

Re: Notation program...

Post by odod »

Hi Rafael,

thank you so much for this, i knew it that this has to be done using fake beaming. I hope Dorico can update this very soon. Can you try to move that F clef, to the previous notes, i have tried using your file and it seems now i cannot move the upper quarter note. Such a shame that even a free app like Musescore is very easy handling this kind of notation, i have been using Musescore also for my Numberen Notation project
Screen Shot 2020-10-02 at 13.03.16.png
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Rafael Velasco
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Jun 2020, 13:23

Re: Notation program...

Post by Rafael Velasco »

Hi odod,

Do you mean like in this gif?
moving clef.gif
First i have choosen to show signposts and voice colors in the view menu.
I have entered a system brake to make sure that these 6 bars stay in a system. If you already have entered a system brake and its signpost is visible you can just select the signpost and alt-click where you want it to be copied, otherwise you'd have to change to engrave mode (you can copy many things this way).
In write mode select the clef and with ctrl+alt+left/right arrow you can move it to the rythmic position you want (it,ll move accordingly to the value you have selected for the rythmic grid).
In Engrave mode select the note you want to move, take into account that when selecting overlapped noteheads (or other elements) if you just click over the notehead then you get a multiple selection (see the status bar at the bottom left) but you can press alt+shift and click to select just one of the elements, keep pressed alt+shift and click again to select other of the overlapped elements and so on.
One you have selected the note you want to move you can use the properties panel to move it exactly where you want, most of the spacing values are expressed as fractions but you can enter decimals if you are more comfortable with them.
Then move the "beam" and shorten the stem if needed.

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odod
Posts: 169
Joined: 25 Nov 2015, 15:10

Re: Notation program...

Post by odod »

Rafael Velasco wrote:
02 Oct 2020, 08:00
Hi odod,

Do you mean like in this gif?
moving clef.gif

First i have choosen to show signposts and voice colors in the view menu.
I have entered a system brake to make sure that these 6 bars stay in a system. If you already have entered a system brake and its signpost is visible you can just select the signpost and alt-click where you want it to be copied, otherwise you'd have to change to engrave mode (you can copy many things this way).
In write mode select the clef and with ctrl+alt+left/right arrow you can move it to the rythmic position you want (it,ll move accordingly to the value you have selected for the rythmic grid).
In Engrave mode select the note you want to move, take into account that when selecting overlapped noteheads (or other elements) if you just click over the notehead then you get a multiple selection (see the status bar at the bottom left) but you can press alt+shift and click to select just one of the elements, keep pressed alt+shift and click again to select other of the overlapped elements and so on.
One you have selected the note you want to move you can use the properties panel to move it exactly where you want, most of the spacing values are expressed as fractions but you can enter decimals if you are more comfortable with them.
Then move the "beam" and shorten the stem if needed.

ahh okay, let me try this one, i will get back again,
so there's no other way to do that aside of the fake beaming right?
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Rafael Velasco
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Jun 2020, 13:23

Re: Notation program...

Post by Rafael Velasco »

Hi odod,

There is indeed a better solution without the need to fake the rythmic position.
You'll need to add a new Notehead set with shorter stems in Engrave mode.
-Select the Default Notehead set and select "new from selection" rename it to "shorter stems" or whatever (see the settings below).
shorter stems settings 1.jpg
shorter stems settings 2.jpg
-Write the inner voice with with the beam that will be centered.
-In Dorico, in order to be able to have the beam centered you must have notes at both sides of the third staff line, so add a second to the last 16th in that voice. Apply "force centered beam".
-Select both noteheads in the last 16th of the innere voice (you could select first the extra c and suppressed playback) change the noteheads to "shorter stems" then in the properties panel set the Color to transparent (Alpha chanel=0).
-Select the last 16th in the upper voice and in the properties panel activate the voice column index (it will move to 0).
centered beam 2.gif

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Den
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

In Igor :
Igor editing Brahms.gif
Clef before notes
Igor Engraver - Brahms measure clef before notes.jpg
Last edited by Den on 04 Oct 2020, 01:27, edited 2 times in total.

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John Ruggero
Posts: 1708
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Notation program...

Post by John Ruggero »

The second post, by me, https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=155103 https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=155103 cited above by Velasco is from 2/19 and explains the workaround using Notehead sets.

It puzzled me then and it puzzles me now why the decision was made to limit centered beaming to intervals larger than a fourth, and why it hasn't been corrected by now. Surely there is no difference in programming this with or without such a limitation, and surely, the limitation could be lifted in seconds.

In any case, at least this is possible with a workaround. Thinning individual beams, which often goes together with centered beaming, is not possible in Dorico and there is no workaround.
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Den
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

Graphire Music Press
Brahms measure-before notes F-clef.jpg

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odod
Posts: 169
Joined: 25 Nov 2015, 15:10

Re: Notation program...

Post by odod »

Rafael Velasco wrote:
03 Oct 2020, 11:08
Hi odod,

There is indeed a better solution without the need to fake the rythmic position.
You'll need to add a new Notehead set with shorter stems in Engrave mode.
-Select the Default Notehead set and select "new from selection" rename it to "shorter stems" or whatever (see the settings below).
shorter stems settings 1.jpg
shorter stems settings 2.jpg
-Write the inner voice with with the beam that will be centered.
-In Dorico, in order to be able to have the beam centered you must have notes at both sides of the third staff line, so add a second to the last 16th in that voice. Apply "force centered beam".
-Select both noteheads in the last 16th of the innere voice (you could select first the extra c and suppressed playback) change the noteheads to "shorter stems" then in the properties panel set the Color to transparent (Alpha chanel=0).
-Select the last 16th in the upper voice and in the properties panel activate the voice column index (it will move to 0).
centered beam 2.gif
beautiful! i think this one is easier
Cubase 10.5, FL Studio 20, ProTools 2020, Reaper 6, Dorico, Sibelius, MacPro 2019, EWQL Diamond, Pianoteq 6, Ivory II, Slate, Plugin Alliance, Soundtoys, and yeah i am a gearslut

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