Italian question

[NeeraWM]

What about “Tenere il pedale abbassato fino alla fine”?

Maybe a tiny bit wordy? :-D
In old scores we would see "Ped. al fine", even if fine is not masculine (though I don't know if it was back then. I just discovered that "candle" is feminine now, but was masculine in the Middle Ages in Italian!).
That is the shortest and clearest you can get, since Fine is usually the end of the movement, right?
Even "Ped. sempre" would be more than enough for me. I doubt the player would keep it down after the end of the movement, or after the concert is over!!

[MichelRE]

the problem with the Italian "standard" terminology is, how do you determine where it means "continue to use the pedal as normal until the end" and when it actually means "hold your foot down on the pedal constantly without lifting it until the very end of the piece"?

these are two VERY different effects.

It's not really a question of holding the pedal long after the music is done, but rather, what should be done DURING the music.

[NeeraWM]

Interesting...
If one would write (or assume) "continue to use the pedal as normal until the end", I would expect some sort of indication of pedal usage in the previous bars, such as pedal each quarter note. In that case, though, I would use "Ped. sim. sempre" or "Ped. sim. al Fine".
Otherwise I don't see a difference into the two effects you describe. What does it mean to use the pedal "normally"? What is "normal" in pedal usage?

When I see "Ped. sempre" or "Ped. al fine", I would interpret it as "keep the pedal down until the next "final barline", usually meaning the end of the movement (or piece, if a single-movement piece).

[Harpsichordmaker]

the problem with the Italian "standard" terminology is, how do you determine where it means "continue to use the pedal as normal until the end" and when it actually means "hold your foot down on the pedal constantly without lifting it until the very end of the piece"?

these are two VERY different effects.

Sure. That’s why I proposed that “wordy” marking. If one wants to make sure the player understands they must keep the pedal down till the end without lifting it, that is the only marking which would work.

As for “fine”, yes, in modern italian we use it as a masculine substantive, “il fine”, to mean “the purpose, the aim”; and as a feminine substantive, “la fine”, to mean “the end”.
However, until the half or end of XIX century the masculine was used for meaning “the end” as well. For example see Don Giovanni’s final chorus: “Questo è il fin di chi fa mal”.
Or see “Da capo al fine”, used even when there isn’t a “fine” marking so we are sure it means “the end”and not “the ‘fine’ marking”.

[NeeraWM]

Beautiful explanation @Harpsichordmaker!