First attempt on "serious engraving"

Have your scores reviewed by other users. Comment on old and new published scores and on publishers.
Felipe Copaja
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Mar 2017, 19:18

First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by Felipe Copaja » 09 Mar 2017, 18:17

Hello, I have just joined this forum, and it is amazing and very addictive! Please take note I'm not a native English speaker.
As an amateur cellist and engraver, I've used Finale for several years but always working on small arrangements, copying parts for musician friends, but so far without producing high-end finished scores.
A good friend of mine asked me to engrave a set of caprices by Spanish violinist Manuel Quiroga; he was very glad with the copy I gave to him and he is currently getting authorization to publish them from Quiroga's trust.
Since I found this site, I would definitely wish some feedback on my engraving, before publishing, pointing out any mistakes. Attached are a a first page and a picture of the original manuscript (not sure). My main concern is, should I have kept the 4/8 beaming Quiroga uses most?

Thanks in advance

Felipe Copaja
Finale 2014, Mac Pro retina 15", OS Sierra
Attachments
Capricho1.pdf
(88.47 KiB) Downloaded 164 times
CAPRICHO1.jpg
CAPRICHO1.jpg (764.83 KiB) Viewed 3395 times

Schonbergian
Posts: 165
Joined: 03 Feb 2017, 02:25
Location: Toronto

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by Schonbergian » 09 Mar 2017, 22:04

Welcome to Notat.io! I certainly agree that it's very addictive.

The first thing I notice looking at your score is a bit of imbalance between some elements of the score. The noteheads, staccato dots, and stems are pretty dark, but the clef, text, and staff lines are very light. Changing the staff lines to be darker is a pretty simple change, and finding a darker font shouldn't be too hard, but you may want to consider using one of the treble clefs designed by Notat.io members or using the Bravura font, which is pretty close to Maestro in appearance but is darker and more substantial overall (something I quite like)

Regarding the engraving itself, it's not bad, but could be better. The slurs, in particular, could be closer to the noteheads in most situations. Also, I would move the "Allegro vivace" in m.3 over to the right a bit so the measure isn't so tall. Having the measure numbers next to the staves rather than on the diagonal corner isn't something I've seen before, but it seems to work.

I also see no issues with your beaming vs. the original. To my eye it declutters the page while not losing any information.

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 1303
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by John Ruggero » 10 Mar 2017, 00:12

Welcome to the forum, Felipe! I am glad that you have been enjoying the discussions. I think you are off the great start in engraving and with a worthy project. Here are some thoughts:

1. The composer seems to be making a distinction between the beamed groups of 2's and 4's. In spite of a little apparent inconsistency, this might be meaningful. Since I don't know, and might be going against the composer's ideas to do otherwise, I would leave it exactly as it stands in the manuscript.

2. Putting the measure numbers in the margins shortens the staves a little. If you added that extra space back in, you might be able to get four measures to a line. (Too me your engraving looks a little spread out.) If you did that, you might need one less staff per page, be able to put more space between the staves, and still get the entire piece on two facing pages, which is, of course, a must for such a piece.

3. I like the black white balance, aside from the number of staves, and also the thick vs thin. However, I agree with Schonbergian that some of the type is a little light in appearance. The Allegro vivace might be a little bigger and bolder, for example. (There appears to be a space missing between "No" and "1" in the title.)
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1106
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by OCTO » 10 Mar 2017, 11:08

Felipe Copaja wrote:
09 Mar 2017, 18:17
a set of caprices by Spanish violinist Manuel Quiroga
If it was an original manuscript of the composer I would not comment anything, very beautifully.

But if you are doing that as an engraver/copyist, both comments above are very good to start with for improvements.
If you cannot invest in a notation software, I would recommend completely free software MuseScore, but a very sharp eye is needed to work with it (as it does not make everything perfectly; but not other software do that either).

You can start with several measures for comments, it takes time to do it beautifully! Good luck.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

Felipe Copaja
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Mar 2017, 19:18

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by Felipe Copaja » 10 Mar 2017, 18:48

Schonbergian wrote:
09 Mar 2017, 22:04
but you may want to consider using one of the treble clefs designed by Notat.io members or using the Bravura font
Could you please enlighting me? How can I get them?

I'll follow the advices from the forum and post some more examples; there are some tricky places in the manuscript. Any one interested on reviewing the whole file is welcome (about 14 pages)

Felipe

Schonbergian
Posts: 165
Joined: 03 Feb 2017, 02:25
Location: Toronto

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by Schonbergian » 10 Mar 2017, 19:12

OCTO wrote:
10 Mar 2017, 11:08
Felipe Copaja wrote:
09 Mar 2017, 18:17
a set of caprices by Spanish violinist Manuel Quiroga
If it was an original manuscript of the composer I would not comment anything, very beautifully.

But if you are doing that as an engraver/copyist, both comments above are very good to start with for improvements.
If you cannot invest in a notation software, I would recommend completely free software MuseScore, but a very sharp eye is needed to work with it (as it does not make everything perfectly; but not other software do that either).

You can start with several measures for comments, it takes time to do it beautifully! Good luck.
The PDF score he posted is done in Finale, which should be fine for his purposes.
Felipe Copaja wrote:
10 Mar 2017, 18:48
Schonbergian wrote:
09 Mar 2017, 22:04
but you may want to consider using one of the treble clefs designed by Notat.io members or using the Bravura font
Could you please enlighting me? How can I get them?

I'll follow the advices from the forum and post some more examples; there are some tricky places in the manuscript. Any one interested on reviewing the whole file is welcome (about 14 pages)

Felipe
I believe this link should have a Finale-compatible version of Bravura, should you be interested in using it: http://musegraph.com/fravura-font-free/
I have no experience with Finale itself, though, and so I defer to the other members here on how exactly to install and use the font.

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1106
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by OCTO » 10 Mar 2017, 20:30

Schonbergian wrote:
10 Mar 2017, 19:12
The PDF score he posted is done in Finale, which should be fine for his purposes.
Oh, I see. I have completely missed that there is also attached another file! Now I will check it. Thank you for pointing this.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

Felipe Copaja
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Mar 2017, 19:18

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by Felipe Copaja » 16 Mar 2017, 13:33

Hi again. Here there are two more samples of the caprices. I made the files using an older version of Finale, and when opening the file in my current version, many items got messed, so since I didn't have pdf's for all I had to scan the printed copy I have for one of them.

Aside from what you've already pointed out (stronger clef, barlines and tempo indications; measure numbers), what else should I take care of?
Again I'm attaching pictures of the originals.

Looking forward

Felipe
Attachments
CAPRICHO4_2.jpg
CAPRICHO4_2.jpg (650.64 KiB) Viewed 3274 times
CAPRICHO4_1.jpg
CAPRICHO4_1.jpg (778.35 KiB) Viewed 3274 times
CAPRICHO3_1.jpg
CAPRICHO3_1.jpg (675.28 KiB) Viewed 3274 times
Capricho 4 - Quiroga.pdf
(394.26 KiB) Downloaded 127 times
Capricho3.pdf
(884.71 KiB) Downloaded 122 times

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 1303
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by John Ruggero » 16 Mar 2017, 15:19

This is excellent work. The only thing that stands out (besides some crowding, which appears to be unavoidable) is the very large first line indent, which looks over twice as large as what one usually sees. Also, the accent marks sometimes appear a little too far to the left for my taste. Also the first tr in no 3.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1106
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: First attempt on "serious engraving"

Post by OCTO » 20 Mar 2017, 09:04

Do you print on other size than what music is? No4 has very strange margins, I guess it will be cut.
The ledger lines seem to be to bold for my taste.

Some objects I would consider re-positioning in order to get more vertical space, that applies also to the beams, stems.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

Post Reply