Optical spacing

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OCTO
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Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

When I look at this example, I feel that the second grace note is to much close to the main note.
Interestingly, the spacing (stem-to-stem) is correct, yet I can't remove my feeling that the spacing is improper.
How do you look at it?

This is done in Finale.
graces.png
graces.png (26.28 KiB) Viewed 11413 times
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Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
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tisimst
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by tisimst »

Unquestionably, the second grace note and the main note look too close together, but it should only need a small re-allocation of spacing to give it enough air on both sides.
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MalteM
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM »

LilyPond agrees:
lily2.png
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lily1.png
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OCTO
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

MalteM wrote: 10 Sep 2018, 11:46LilyPond agrees:
The same example, is it LP default?
So interesting, LP moves the note to make optical illusion of proper spacing.

How about other programs, particularly Dorico (default)?
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Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
MalteM
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM »

Yes, that’s LilyPond’s default spacing.
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tisimst
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by tisimst »

Here are some surprising results...

Dorico 2.0:
dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.76 KiB) Viewed 11379 times
Sibelius 8.5:
sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (55.26 KiB) Viewed 11379 times
Musescore 2.3:
musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.19 KiB) Viewed 11379 times
Music Typeface Designer & Engraver - LilyPond | Sibelius | Finale | MuseScore | Dorico | SMuFL | Inkscape | FontForge
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OCTO
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

In my opinion Dorico has the worst output here.
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Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
MalteM
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM »

I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …
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OCTO
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

MalteM wrote: 11 Sep 2018, 11:15 I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …
Yes, but in my opinion Sibelius has its own spacing issue. To much space for grace notes, and also very strangely main notes. Just, I don't get it.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 27.3 • Sibelius 2023.5• MuseScore 4+ • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 11+ • Digital Performer 10+ /// MacOS Monterey (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
Schonbergian
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by Schonbergian »

Sibelius chokes and dies as soon as you throw anything into the spacing engine other than notes. Lyrics, in particular, never fail to screw up the look of the page. Amazing that it hasn't been improved after all this time.
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