Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

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OCTO
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by OCTO » 07 Apr 2019, 17:36

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SantaKiwi
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by SantaKiwi » 07 Apr 2019, 18:47

I work at a university so I might print out some copies for my students to compare...

SantaKiwi
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by SantaKiwi » 08 Apr 2019, 18:04

OCTO wrote:
07 Apr 2019, 17:29
If you work as a music teacher in a class it is a great opportunity to test this!
Report back: I printed out both pages (in A3) and asked some composers, pianists, violinists and a conductor on which ones they prefer. The preference was pretty even. Those who preferred the arial (sans serif) example preferred it because of its thickness being more clear than Centabel. Those who preferred the Centabel (serif) example, however, chose this example because the thinner font allowed the dynamic markings to stand out more.

I think I will, therefore, go for the Centabel font, but I will report back with examples of the notation when the November font is implemented.

Schonbergian
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by Schonbergian » 09 Apr 2019, 04:04

Your second choice fits the aesthetic of your score much better, although a slightly thicker version (if it can be found) would be even better.

The use of sans-serif fonts in music should be extremely limited. In the past only Universal Edition routinely used sans-serifs for text markings, and even then their use was sporadic.

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OCTO
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by OCTO » 09 Apr 2019, 10:06

SantaKiwi wrote:
08 Apr 2019, 18:04
I think I will, therefore, go for the Centabel font, but I will report back with examples of the notation when the November font is implemented.
Have you tested Old Standard? Can you give a try?
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SantaKiwi
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by SantaKiwi » 09 Apr 2019, 14:02

It is clear now after changing to the November2 music font (Thank you so much for your awesome work, Richard P.!), the arial version now doesn't suit the music font:
Opera (pg57 - arial).pdf
(164.5 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Therefore I agree with everyone here that a serif font should be used.
OCTO wrote:
09 Apr 2019, 10:06
SantaKiwi wrote:
08 Apr 2019, 18:04
I think I will, therefore, go for the Centabel font, but I will report back with examples of the notation when the November font is implemented.
Have you tested Old Standard? Can you give a try?
I have tried it, yes. Here is the result (apologies as the music has changed slightly since the last comparison):
Opera (pg57 - oldstandard).pdf
(202 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Here it is compared to the original Centabel Book font:
Opera (pg57 - centabel book).pdf
(185.8 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Schonbergian wrote:
09 Apr 2019, 04:04
Your second choice fits the aesthetic of your score much better, although a slightly thicker version (if it can be found) would be even better.

The use of sans-serif fonts in music should be extremely limited. In the past only Universal Edition routinely used sans-serifs for text markings, and even then their use was sporadic.
Thank you for your feedback, Schonbergian! I did manage to find a thicker version of Centabel Book (known as just Centabel). Here is the result:
Opera (pg57 - centabel).pdf
(180.98 KiB) Downloaded 23 times

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OCTO
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by OCTO » 10 Apr 2019, 09:57

I feel that I get the most attention from Old Standard, with the same height size comparing to the others.
Personally, I dislike somewhat November because of several glyphs, despite its very elegant appearance. Also, it is very characteristic and not many fonts can be used together with it. It has appearance of being punched and thus handmade uneven, so having a very sharp font along with it is very unbalanced. In all cases, Arial, Old Standard and Centabel - in my opinion - is not working well with November.

In my scores my final favorite combo are: Vienna + Old Standard and/or Maestro + GNU Free Serif.
The second one I use only when I need to work with several copyists on different systems, for safety. But the first combo is definitely the most clear so far.
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SantaKiwi
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by SantaKiwi » 10 Apr 2019, 11:22

OCTO wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 09:57
It has appearance of being punched and thus handmade uneven, so having a very sharp font along with it is very unbalanced. In all cases, Arial, Old Standard and Centabel - in my opinion - is not working well with November.
I agree with you that because the November music font is designed to have the punched, handmade look, having a font that isn't similarly designed causes the unbalance. I do like tbe look of Old Standard, but even this one is a bit too clean (and slightly too vertical) for the font.

So I decided to continue the hunt on fonts, and after a long search, I think I have found a good option (Carrig Pro):
Opera (pg57 - carrigabel).pdf
(223.77 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
I like it because I think it strikes a good balance between all the factors we've discussed.

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OCTO
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by OCTO » 10 Apr 2019, 17:34

Still, I think it is to thin. In opera you have lights low and you really need to get it out without having bigger font.
Have you tried to combine November with Vollkorn?
https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/vollkorn
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SantaKiwi
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Re: Comparing text fonts (Operatic Score)

Post by SantaKiwi » 10 Apr 2019, 21:41

I think the thin font shouldn't be too much of an issue, especially since the singer will have to memorise the score. But, nevertheless, I agree with you re the orchestral parts and lighting,

Here's the copy of the score using Vollkorn.
Opera (pg57 - vollkorn).pdf
(221.22 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
I still prefer the Carrig; here's a copy of it with a heavier thickness:
Opera (pg57 - carrig pro reg).pdf
(193.42 KiB) Downloaded 23 times

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