Making the switch to Dorico?

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by John Ruggero » 11 Jun 2019, 14:51

benwiggy, for me Dorico was like a very intelligent assistant who gets in one's way by second-guessing everything, so that one has to undo their work as well as doing one's own. A less intelligent one who simply carries out my orders is better, even if not done perfectly, since I know their failings well. Best would a genius assistant who does automatically and perfectly exactly what I want done that way, but is smart enough to know when to stay out of my way. I had hoped that Dorico would be that assistant, but so far the basic concept behind it prevents it from being the tool I need. I felt as if I were escaping from "Behind Bars" when I returned to Finale.

OCTO, Your analogy with painting is very apt. I too want to feel like a painter rather than an assembler.

I did try MuseScore a while ago, was impressed, but ran into capability issues. When I have a chance I plan to try it again having seen the results that you have posted.
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Schneider
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by Schneider » 12 Jun 2019, 06:08

John Ruggero wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 14:51
[...] A less intelligent one who simply carries out my orders is better, even if not done perfectly, since I know their failings well. [...]
Nice quote! ;)

benwiggy
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by benwiggy » 13 Jun 2019, 08:39

John Ruggero wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 14:51
I felt as if I were escaping from "Behind Bars" when I returned to Finale.
Gould's book has become the de facto standard reference for music notation, even if some points might be debatable or unsuitable for all occasions. It makes complete sense for a modern notation program to follow those rules, allowing the user to depart from them when required. It's been obvious as Dorico develops that it first introduces strict and limited capabilities in a given area before providing more powerful flexibility and freedom in later updates.
I suspect that the anticipated version 3 will remove most remaining limitations as well as any advantages that Finale might still possess.
John Ruggero wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 14:51
I know their failings well
I know Finale's failings all too well, and they are not improved by familiarity. Correcting them is simply a waste of my time.

I would rather compromise on one small detail (in the short term, safe in the knowledge that it will be addressed) than have to correct 100 defects by hand (knowing that this will always be the case).
I suppose we are both lucky to have the tools that suit us.

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David Ward
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by David Ward » 13 Jun 2019, 12:58

benwiggy wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 08:39
… … … I suppose we are both lucky to have the tools that suit us.
None of the computer music typesetting tools really suit me as a composer: manuscript is more instinctive, natural and flexible (and I still use it for all the preliminary stages). However economics mean it's much (hugely) less expensive to use the computer when it comes to reproducing final versions of scores, preparing parts and all the rest, so there's little option but to go with it. The days of readily available hand copyists are gone.

I'll try to persevere with Finale for as long as it's available, if for no better reason than that I've got used to its quirks. I don't want to waste composing time and energy learning new software, but will if I have to.
Finale 25.5 & F 26.1
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John Ruggero
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by John Ruggero » 13 Jun 2019, 21:10

Thanks, Schneider!

Sorry, benwiggy, I shouldn't have capitalized "behind bars". i just couldn't resist the play on words.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
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hautbois baryton
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by hautbois baryton » 14 Jun 2019, 05:14

Dorico has a few things I really like (ossia, divisi), but can't do basic things like put accents outside the staff even when you tell it to do so and use the actual settings within the application that say "hey, we'll draw these outside the staff if you choose this option," draw basic lines without workarounds, or let you use brackets as they need to be musically used. Just from an aesthetic view, the fonts remind me of Easy Piano music (the standard font) or chicken scratch (the "handwritten" font), and that's a big visceral negative for me.

One day it may be worth switching over for me, but Dorico has too many negatives that aren't outweighed by positives at the moment. I'll continue to play around with the demos and follow the news, but it's not there yet.
Composer and engraver

benwiggy
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by benwiggy » 14 Jun 2019, 08:09

Admittedly, Dorico is still a young program and does have some deficiencies. There's no Guitar TAB, which is a dealbreaker for ... well, guitarists. For me, the staff hiding needs to be drastically improved, and a variety of 'Smart Lines' would be useful. If it doesn't meet your needs now, I would certainly wait and see whether version 3 will.
Given what the team achieved over the last year, and the length of time they're now spending working towards v3, I am entirely confident that it will remove many of the limitations, and I intend to be ready to use it as soon as it comes out.
hautbois baryton wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 05:14
Dorico has a few things I really like (ossia, divisi), but can't do basic things like put accents outside the staff .... Just from an aesthetic view, the fonts remind me of Easy Piano music (the standard font) or chicken scratch (the "handwritten" font), and that's a big visceral negative for me.
There are other fonts, like November and MTF-Cadence, which, interestingly, both place the accent outside the staff by default. Scaling Bravura's accent to 102% has the same effect. But, with their usual responsiveness to comments, the team have said they will add a setting for accents. (There isn't one currently.)

Abraham Lee has been working on an update to his Cadence font, with a much larger set of SMuFL glyphs, and it looks beautiful and works well in Dorico.
hautbois baryton wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 05:14
let you use brackets as they need to be musically used
Staff brackets? Or other sorts? Staff brackets are completely flexible.

As I've previously said, any deficiency and obstacle you find in Dorico is likely to be addressed far sooner than those in Finale. How long has the Ossia tool been broken? Anyone used the MIDI Tool recently?

hautbois baryton
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by hautbois baryton » 15 Jun 2019, 00:05

Oh, I definitely agree, Wiggy, improvements will continue to be made. Dorico just hasn't reached my own standards for "which workarounds can I live with" yet. The ossias/divisis are brilliant, and I look forward to a time when I can use them in my work.

My tests so far were disappointing enough to not move over, but I am encouraged by Daniel's team and their true appreciation of and consideration of feedback.
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OCTO
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by OCTO » 17 Jun 2019, 11:08

Is anyone of you a beta tester for Dorico?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25 • Sibelius 2018 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

RMK
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Re: Making the switch to Dorico?

Post by RMK » 17 Jun 2019, 23:16

If they were, they probably would not be able to admit that to you, having certainly signed an Nondisclosure Agreement (NDA).

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