Tuplet values

[benwiggy]

We're in 9/8. This bar has 8 demisemiquavers (32nds?) in the time of 12; but the tuplet is marked "3".

Screenshot.png (54.9 KiB) Viewed 90737 times

Surely it should be 2, or 4, or 8...?
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Screenshot.png (31.57 KiB) Viewed 90737 times

[RMK]

8 or 8:12 or 8:3

[benwiggy]

Perhaps the 3 was a misreading of a badly drawn 8 in the manuscript....?

[Anders Hedelin]

Doesn't it look more like a badly placed 2? (Left bottom "corner".)
Badly placed or perhaps a little too small.

[benwiggy]

You could be right; the quality of both original the print and the scan make it hard to determine. But when I zoom in, it could be a 2 after all.

Ah yes, there are other instances of the same pattern where it's clearly a 2. Stand down.

[Anders Hedelin]

Another question about your first example. Now and then I get older manuscripts to work with, where composers obviously use slurs instead of brackets for tuplets, in the old way. Sometimes they are broken, sometimes not. When not, the slurs are not always that obvious: are they just "tuplet slurs", or legato slurs as well?

Any ideas about this?

Edit: Quite possibly this has been discussed before. But in which thread?

[OCTO]

Doesn't it look more like a badly placed 2? (Left bottom "corner".)
Badly placed or perhaps a little too small.

I would agree. Seems to be "2".

[John Ruggero]

Pretty sure they are 2s.

To me, tuplet brackets look out of place in older music, being too angular. I'd engrave it as it stands. And then there is the ambiguity:

Another question about your first example. Now and then I get older manuscripts to work with, where composers obviously use slurs instead of brackets for tuplets, in the old way. Sometimes they are broken, sometimes not. When not, the slurs are not always that obvious: are they just "tuplet slurs", or legato slurs as well?

Any ideas about this?

The slur often did double duty as a bracket and a slur. Context often makes clear what was intended. In other cases, we'll never know for sure, so I think it is better to leave it as it is.

[NeeraWM]

The slur often did double duty as a bracket and a slur. Context often makes clear what was intended. In other cases, we'll never know for sure, so I think it is better to leave it as it is.

Sadly not all softwares allow for creation of slur-like tuplet brackets.