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Italian question
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 05:32
by Hector Pascal
Hi all,
I would like to put an instruction in my score / piano part to hold the damper Ped. down until the end of the movement.
I've come up with this:
Ped. (sempre sostenuto al fine del movimento).
If anyone here on the forum could check / correct my spelling and usage of the Italian words, that'd be really helpful to me!
Grazie,
Hector.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 11:16
by John Ruggero
I put "pedal held throughout the movement" into Reverse.com translate and this came up:
pedale tenuto per tutto il movimento
You could try other versions and see which one you like. I assume that they would be grammatically correct.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 11:48
by Harpsichordmaker
I’d say:
- Pedale [sempre] tenuto fino alla fine del movimento
Or
- Pedale tenuto per tutto il movimento.
Not “al fine”. “Fine” is feminine nowadays so it’s “alla fine”. Once it was used in masculine too (until the XIX century), today “la fine” means “the end”, “il fine” means “the purpose”.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 30 Apr 2023, 02:00
by Hector Pascal
Grazie mille!
Ciao,
Hector
Re: Italian question
Posted: 02 May 2023, 09:43
by OCTO
In my opinion:
"
alla Fine"
I think a lot of music text is overtexted. For the music notation we need less poetry.
Think of this: for each character you need to pay. So, less is more.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 02 May 2023, 11:13
by Hector Pascal
Hi OCTO, I will try to remember that! Anything to save on laser toner!
Thanks & Cheerio,
HP.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 02 May 2023, 11:23
by OCTO
Hector Pascal wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 11:13
Hi OCTO, I will try to remember that! Anything to save on laser toner!
Thanks & Cheerio,
HP.
The goal is not to save toner, but to enhance perception. Our objective is to notate music with maximum efficiency, clarity, and the quickest response time from musicians.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 02 May 2023, 12:00
by John Ruggero
Hopefully, the pianist will not interpret Ped. al fine to mean Ped. sempre.
Beethoven wrote:
Si dove suonare tutto questo pezza delicatissimamente e senza sordini (=dampers off the strings)
sempre pianissimo e senza sordini
over the opening measures of the Moonlight Sonata and musicians are still debating whether he meant to hold the pedal without lifting it through the entire movement, or keep using the pedal throughout the movement and changing with each change of harmony, which was also an unusual effect at the time.
Re: Italian question
Posted: 02 May 2023, 18:18
by OCTO
John Ruggero wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 12:00
Hopefully, the pianist will not interpret Ped. al fine to mean Ped. sempre.
But I do understand that Hector Pascal means "depress the sustain pedal and keep it down until the end of the movement."
Re: Italian question
Posted: 02 May 2023, 20:54
by MichelRE
John Ruggero wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 12:00
Hopefully, the pianist will not interpret Ped. al fine to mean Ped. sempre.
Beethoven wrote:
Si dove suonare tutto questo pezza delicatissimamente e senza sordini (=dampers off the strings)
sempre pianissimo e senza sordini
over the opening measures of the Moonlight Sonata and musicians are still debating whether he meant to hold the pedal without lifting it through the entire movement, or keep using the pedal throughout the movement and changing with each change of harmony, which was also an unusual effect at the time.
mmm, wouldn't "sordini/sordino" mean without using the SOFT pedal, rather than without the damper pedal?
anyone debating this may have some linguistic and pianistic problems that aren't related to Beethoven's notation.
I was taught that the movement was meant to be played pp, but without the aide of the soft pedal.
The damper pedals, on the other hand (foot?), were a completely different thing.