Beethoven's Tenth

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John Ruggero
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Beethoven's Tenth

Post by John Ruggero »

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David Ward
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by David Ward »

Although Boulez (amongst quite a few other notables) disapproved of Deryck Cooke's realization of Mahler's 10th symphony, I have always felt that it was a valid and wonderfully effective contribution to the repertoire, based as it was on a short score (albeit sometimes very sparse) of the whole piece realized through a deep personal understanding of Mahler's musical language.

Something similar might be said of Friedrich Cerha's completion of Berg's opera Lulu.

The same could perhaps, in its way, also be maintained of the late Tony Payne's realization of Elgar's 3rd symphony, although the material from which he was working was a lot less continuous than the Mahler short score which Cooke had available. Nevertheless he became deeply, personally immersed in Elgar's music, though he never claimed to be writing what Elgar would have done.

On the other hand, Schoenberg's Moses und Aron has been left incomplete and has been extremely effectively staged as it is.

FWIW I feel that Beethoven's 10th might be best left alone as a few ‘might have been’ sketches. To me the present exercise is in danger of being a musicological conceit without any significant cultural merit. Or to put it another way: do we need it, and if so why?

Mind you, I suppose I should hear it before being implacably negative.
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OCTO
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by OCTO »

Yet another attempt to "prove" that AI is capable of making art. The AI has become a fancy and respectable word today. The only one thing AI doesn't do, that artists do, is making "mistakes" of unknown origin, which adds the true beauty in artist's works and pushes the boundaries of the art.
Well, AI is programmed by scientist on the basis of analysis, yet the artists don't make analysis but synthesis of the art. The fact is that I do understand how Beethoven did his 5th Symphony, and it is plainly clear, almost "so easy" and "I could do it", but frankly speaking could I do it? Analysis is easy, synthesis is difficult.
For instance, up to Mendelssohn almost all concertos have the double exposition of the first movement (first orchestra, second solo), and if AI analyses it - should make the same double exposition. But Mendelssohn in his Violin Concerto (e-minor) starts the first exposition directly with the solo. A well done mistake, I mean: a profoundly ingenious mistake.
Hearing the example, I can only say that it sounds as my Japanese friend, a composer and pianist, who can sit for hours and improvise in the style of "beethoven" as he does when he visits me. The orchestral excerpt is a fine simulation of "captain cabin", somehow reminds me of Alma Deutscher.
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benwiggy
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by benwiggy »

It sounds like a pastiche imitation of the 5th symphony.

I'm reminded of ABBA's recent new album, which I thought sounded exactly like ABBA, almost to the extent that it could have been an AI extrapolation of their back catalogue.

Also, "Austrian composer Walter Werzowa, famous for writing Intel’s signature bong jingle".

"So, what do you do? ... A composer? ... Anything I might have heard?"

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John Ruggero
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by John Ruggero »

The next step will be The Eleventh. From scratch. Then...
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OCTO
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by OCTO »

John Ruggero wrote:
10 Oct 2021, 20:31
The next step will be The Eleventh. From scratch. Then...
...then we will have automatic generating of endless symphonies by the AI, and totally abandoning Beethoven as obsolete.
:(
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John Ruggero
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by John Ruggero »

To be listened to by AI audiences guided by AI critics proclaiming how "revelatory" they all are.
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OCTO
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by OCTO »

Haha! well said!
AI needs to keep in mind that Beethoven was the first.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by John Ruggero »

...and only.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Beethoven's Tenth

Post by John Ruggero »

The reconstructed 10th symphony was premiered on Oct. 9, 2021. Has anyone seen a review?
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