The biggest scandal in music publishing

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John Ruggero
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by John Ruggero »

I'd be interested in your reaction, Ben. I think that playing them oneself over some period of time is the key to a true appreciation of these pieces, because they are a player's music. The act of playing them is a big part of the experience as with the music of Chopin, a composer that Scarlatti is often linked with.

The Gilbert has them arranged by Kirkpatrick number, which is not chronological, so very early ones and later ones sometimes rub shoulders. The first 30 comprise the set that Scarlatti published and while all top-drawer in quality contains some of the most difficult technically. The range of difficulty varies haphazardly throughout the volumes from quite easy to very difficult. There are easier ones that are early and less interesting, but also some that are highly interesting. All the very difficult ones are superb. The very last ones (vol. 11 in GIlbert) are the finest from all points of view and remind one of the last works of the other great composers.

In my opinion, they constitute a complete course in keyboard playing, and with Chopin's, the best etudes ever written.
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joecat
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by joecat »

First post - this thread came up searching for information on the Fadini edition. Hope y'all are still active.
Harpsichordmaker wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 18:57
John, it’s a pity very few people outside the harpsichord world (and even inside the harpsichord world) do know the Fadini Edition (Ricordi publ.).
Emilia Fadini was an Italian scholar and harpsichordist who dedicated her life to Scarlatti and to concerts and teaching (most of the nouvelle vague of italian harpsichordists come from Fadini).
The complete edition initial plan was in 10 volumes but a handful of new sonatas have come to the light in the last few years so the general editor added a 11th volume still to be published. The volume 10 has just been published a few months ago.
The first 8 volumes were edited by Emilia Fadini alone, the 9th by Fadini with Marco Moiraghi, the 10th by Marco Moiraghi alone. Emilia Fadini passed away a couple months ago.
...
Are the 10 currently available Fadini volumes complete then as far as the 555 original sonatas? Last I looked volume 10 was not yet published but I was happy to see it's now available. It looks like those volumes are actually quite a bit higher priced than the Gilbert but it's an investment I'm willing to make. I have two of the Gilbert editions and would generally be happy, but I'm really put off by the notation (maybe it's a flaw in my reading but I have difficulty with all the staff crossing). I'm less concerned about a few errors since it won't compare to the errors in my playing!

Outside of the Gilbert, I generally like the Gyorgy Balla edition of 200 sonatas (EMB) in four volumes - I'm no expert on the correctness of the editions, but they are urtext and well-printed and bound. I think it's still a very good selection and player could do worse if they "only" wanted to learn 200 - I may never even read all 555 but I'd like to have them all available. The Henle editions are always well-done IMHO, but of course they are curated and limited to the "100 greatest hits". I ignore most fingerings and scribble my own, but the EMB edition has fingering suggestions also.
John Ruggero wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 12:51
In my opinion, they constitute a complete course in keyboard playing, and with Chopin's, the best etudes ever written.
My Beethoven is always better when I'm playing Scarlatti. Still only a solid 4/10, however.

BTW John - we know each other - you used to tune and service my Charles Walter upright in Apex.
I'm still in the Triangle most of the time (second home is in Oregon), but in an apartment at the moment so playing a very decent Kawaii ES-8 digital. I've definitely sent a few customers to you over the years :)

joecat
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by joecat »

Just "looked inside" Volume 10 of the Fadini edition (Sheetmusicplus) and it's the same modern (?) notation as the Gilbert - guess I need to get used to it.

Also, K1 is #517; it was mentioned previously that the Kirkpatrick editions are not in fact in chronological order, which I though was something he corrected from the Longo editions. I'm assuming the Fadini may be the only edition that is definitive in the order then. But I may have answered my previous question about completeness, since I'm guessing volume 10 is from #517 to #555, which is awesome.
Last edited by joecat on 31 Jan 2022, 03:02, edited 1 time in total.

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John Ruggero
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by John Ruggero »

Hi joecat. Welcome to the forum. The John Ruggero who tuned and serviced your piano is my namesake and nephew, who is a percussionist and piano technician. Unless it was his father and my brother Richard, who owns Ruggero Piano. I stay strictly on the keyboard side of the fall board, knowing well my limitations in piano technology.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), 2014 Mac mini (OS 10.12), Dual monitors, Finale 27 & 25.5, GPO 4, InDesign CS4, SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

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Harpsichordmaker
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

joecat wrote:
31 Jan 2022, 02:59
Just "looked inside" Volume 10 of the Fadini edition (Sheetmusicplus) and it's the same modern (?) notation as the Gilbert - guess I need to get used to it.

Also, K1 is #517; it was mentioned previously that the Kirkpatrick editions are not in fact in chronological order, which I though was something he corrected from the Longo editions. I'm assuming the Fadini may be the only edition that is definitive in the order then. But I may have answered my previous question about completeness, since I'm guessing volume 10 is from #517 to #555, which is awesome.
The Fadini edition was scheduled in 10 volumes but it has become apparent an eleventh volume will be needed. This is stated in vol. 10 if I remember correctly.

As for the notation, no, it’s not modern as the Gilbert. Please look at the stave-crossings and at the chords. The mss use the bass staff for notes up to the central C and the treble staff for notes from the central C and up, regardless of right or left hand. Gilbert modernize that while Fadini retains the notation of the manuscripts. The chords’ notes have each its stem in manuscripts, again retained by Fadini, while Gilbert modernize the chords notation giving each only one stem. There are other differences as well.

As for the numbering, it’s the only flaw in Fadini. It’s not chronological (only the Pestelli numbering is - though with too many uncertainnesses). Just as Kirkpatrick, Fadini starts with a collection, then the next collection and so on. But F starts with Venice or Parma, while K started with Essercizi.
The F numbering is as casual as the K numbering, so it’s a useless new numbering, never gone in wide use among the performers and the musicologists.
But the edition is a jewel nevertheless. You’ll find sonatas in double or triple versions, variants, readings of each manuscript and so on, in a notation very close to the originals.

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John Ruggero
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by John Ruggero »

Checking against the original edition of K. 1 and 2, the note distribution between the staves is retained in the Gilbert, but much of the centered beaming is eliminated. Does the Fadini retain all the centered beaming?
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Harpsichordmaker
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

John, you mean this?
Fadini and original edition
Fadini and original edition
DE98C2E3-D00F-490E-9CDF-C87B2E079932.jpeg (3.63 MiB) Viewed 1079 times
Gilbert
Gilbert
AC36F6DD-F9A9-499C-8457-E85918131893.jpeg (2.03 MiB) Viewed 1079 times
If so, yes, Fadini does retain the most of the notational particularities.

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John Ruggero
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by John Ruggero »

That's what i mean. It looks like a great scholarly edition. Thanks!
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NeeraWM
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by NeeraWM »

Hi John,
more than one year late to this party as well.
I was deeply touched by how sincerely and strongly you expressed the need for a good Urtext of Scarlatti sonatas. As an indie editor/publisher myself (though cellist) I made it my mission to offer the world top-level-engraved, urtext + critical (that is double version of each work) editions of long (and unfairly) lost gems of music (my Dotzauer & Piatti projects are my focus now: https://artisticscoreengraving.wordpres ... r-project/ (full catalogue here, just to show what I do, I hope you'll forgive the Italian flag colouring!: https://adobe.ly/3A574Eg)

I would be very willing to start a project in this sense, but I would need assistance from at least one of you for the harpsichord-level things. I can produce modern notation, pro-level engraving (and I am willing to grow and learn from ANY suggestions), but I am a cellist, so I cannot pretend to know what I do not. If you and/or harpsichordmaker and/or anyone else would like to embark in this huge project together, please contact me and we will get on from there. A few observations on his:
1. What would be an affordable price in your opinion? A price per sonata, per opus, per collection? All of these?
2. Should this be digital-only or also printed? After reading OCTO's awesome post on POD printing I am inquiring how to get this going as it seems a good thing to do.
3. The fact that we have a complete version available on IMSLP could impact sales greatly. Do you think there is market for this?

Looking forward to hearing back from you.
Thanks
Michele (yes, one day I'll manage to change the forum display name)

Harpsichordmaker
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Re: The biggest scandal in music publishing

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

Hi, NeeraWM - Michele!
I'm Italian myself.
I'm sorry to say I have neither the time nor the inclination to embark myself in a similar project, which of course I wish you to succeed wholeheartedly. More important, John Ruggero has a very clear idea of what to do and so he is the one who could carry out such a project. Thanks a lot for having asked.

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