più and meno as dynamic modifers

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
benwiggy
Posts: 700
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by benwiggy »

I presume, following Italian, that 'più piano' is quieter than piano, and thus 'meno piano' is louder; and the same is true for 'molto piano'.

I'm looking for a 'warmer mezzopiano than we've just had' instruction. So più mp wouldn't be right, and meno mp seems counter-intuitive and open to rehearsal questions.

It's a lullaby, so I don't want to go mad. Any thoughts?

RMK
Posts: 104
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 12:12

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by RMK »

Doesn't più p mean "softer than the prevailing dynamic", whatever it is?

MalteM
Posts: 54
Joined: 07 Aug 2018, 18:26

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by MalteM »

benwiggy wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 11:30
[…] meno mp seems counter-intuitive and open to rehearsal questions.
So you probably don’t want to say “less quiet” but “louder”. The simplest solution IMO would be “mf”, but if you want to stay relative, you had to say “più :forte
It's a lullaby, so I don't want to go mad. Any thoughts?
How about “poco più :forte” or even “pochissimo più :forte”?

Edit: Maybe it’s not a question of dynamic only, as you said “warmer mp”.

benwiggy
Posts: 700
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by benwiggy »

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen something like 'più f' following piano, but only following something like forte, so slightly overlooked the completely relative aspect.

It's probably safer to use absolute terms. Thanks.

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 191
Joined: 16 Aug 2017, 16:36
Location: Sweden

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by Anders Hedelin »

MalteM wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 15:08
Maybe it’s not a question of dynamic only, as you said “warmer mp”.
What about espr. or poco espr.? espr. adds something to the character like 'warmth' or 'intensity', and as a rule also to the dynamic level. Fx p espr. practically always is louder than just p, sometimes rather much in fact.
Finale 26 on Windows 10

Callasmaniac
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 17:22

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by Callasmaniac »

Or "mp con calore" ?

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 2068
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by John Ruggero »

Anders Hedelin wrote:
27 Jul 2022, 09:13
What about espr. or poco espr.?
+1
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), 2014 Mac mini (OS 10.12), Dual monitors, Finale 27 & 25.5, GPO 4, InDesign CS4, SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1606
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by OCTO »

sotto voce --?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020.12• MuseScore 3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9 /// MacOS Mojave (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)

MichelRE
Posts: 74
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by MichelRE »

OCTO wrote:
29 Jul 2022, 16:27
sotto voce --?

I would take "sotto voce" to be "softer than" the general dynamic.

benwiggy
Posts: 700
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: più and meno as dynamic modifers

Post by benwiggy »

Thanks all. "A lot to think about." I'll probably just say mp for everyone, and trust in a choir's natural tendency to get louder. ;-)

Post Reply