multi-stop slur question (violin)

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 1932
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by John Ruggero »

I think you are probably right, David. In which case, wouldn't the following be clearer:
triplet stops.jpeg
triplet stops.jpeg (14.73 KiB) Viewed 872 times
But maybe it is obvious to a violinist.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1558
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by OCTO »

John Ruggero wrote:
01 Oct 2021, 13:08
Or is the Ysaye chord a double stop open G-B and then the rest as a quadruple stop?
Exactly!
It is not so difficult chord actually. In the third position it is played this way, as quick as possible (grace notes):
Untitled1.jpg
Untitled1.jpg (5.97 KiB) Viewed 844 times
The piece is indeed beautiful, David, and I have performed it numerous times. It is both joy and challenging. I would suggest another solo sonata, No 6 (also by Ysaye, from his "Six Solo Sonatas"), fantastic music.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

MichelRE
Posts: 27
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by MichelRE »

the main reason I wrote the chord as specifically a "grace" not preparation to a double-stop is that I DON'T want the violinist to attack the chord rapidly, I really want to hear the grace preparation, and then the conclusion of the chord.

The soloist and I had a long chat about the performance of the chords in question, and she preferred that I specify which chords had to have that "slow-ish" approach, and which ones were meant to be attacked as more of a single unit.

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 1932
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by John Ruggero »

Thanks, OCTO. In that case, wouldn't this be clearer:
Ysaye.jpeg
Ysaye.jpeg (8.67 KiB) Viewed 828 times
Or is it obvious to a proficient violinist?
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1558
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by OCTO »

John, I am impressed by your understanding of this complex (for non string players) violin chord, bravo!
Your example above is indeed clear and "valid", and perhaps easier to understand at the first look, then the original by Ysaye. The only thing is that it includes two voices distributed differently from Ysaye, where the original is meant to be one single voiced chord with separate held top note (voice).
MichelRE wrote:
03 Oct 2021, 02:14
the main reason I wrote the chord as specifically a "grace" not preparation to a double-stop is that I DON'T want the violinist to attack the chord rapidly, I really want to hear the grace preparation, and then the conclusion of the chord.
Yes, understand, then with the slur is totally fine, with some "warnings":
in your case there is no indication that it should be played "slower" since there are numerous examples similar to yours in the violin literature where it is played at the original speed of a broken chord. Perhaps, using acciaccatura that is not of eighth note but quarter note would be more clarifying. Also, acciaccatura tends to be played before the beat, so if it is of a longer value it will change the rhythm.
Perhaps not acciaccatura but appoggiatura and as quarter note?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 1932
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by John Ruggero »

Thanks, OCTO. Please don't read too much understanding into it; I taught myself to "play" the violin but then stopped many years ago after realizing that mastering one instrument is enough for a lifetime. In any case, perhaps then, Ysaye's is or your notation with the small notes would be the best one.

Maybe the small notes in Michel's situation could be written as small eighth notes without a slash to show that they are appoggiaturas rather than acciaccaturas.
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2,
Finale 2014d with GPO 4, JW Plug-ins, SmartScore X Pro, Adobe InDesign CS4,
Inkscape .48.5 and .91, FontForge 20150526
http://www.cantilenapress.com

MichelRE
Posts: 27
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: multi-stop slur question (violin)

Post by MichelRE »

thank-you for the suggestions, I'll definitely look at changing those.

Post Reply