Positioning Chord Symbols and Rehearsal Marks for Jazz

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 2453
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Positioning Chord Symbols and Rehearsal Marks for Jazz

Post by John Ruggero »

bophead wrote: 22 Feb 2022, 10:21
John Ruggero wrote: 22 Feb 2022, 03:43 When I first started improvising using lead sheets I was always bothered by the fact that the bass lines were not present, having done quite a bit of theory using figured bass. (You'll have to factor in that I am a "classical" musician and think of the bass line as just as important as the top melody.) So I thought the slashes for bass notes were a real advance.
John, am I getting you right that at that time starting improvising you were frustrated because you had no real explanation of what to do in the left hand? I know the kind of frustation when you are stuck. (By the way I play guitar, my piano skills are very rudimentary. I practice Musescore editing in the moment if I want to know how a piano score sounds, listening to the built-in synth.)
It wasn't really frustration of that kind but more a desire to know what the actual original bass line was, because with genius song writers like a Gershwin, for example, the bass lines make a big difference and I thought would provide a better basis for creating my own. As you point out, access to information was so limited then, especially if you were not in a metropolitan area.

As a side note, one of Lennie Tristano's students was the jazz teacher in my father's music school in Mt. Vernon NY. The name Mosca, just popped into my head. We had a set of 78s of Tristano, a trio I think, and I would listen to it in amazement because it sounded so strange. Mosca (or whoever) invited my parents to a Tristano concert. I'm ashamed to say that they left after a short while, not being in the avant-garde. Anyway, Mosca told us about the rigorous training he was undergoing. I have had some students go through this kind of thing with a Tristano (I think)-style jazz piano teacher here in NC. A lot of ear work, a lot of good technical training that most classical pianists don't get.

I know well the telephone book. It's why very few jazz pianists move me. But the great ones are wonderful. My favorite was Erroll Garner (its probably still unfashionable to say that) because his playing at its very best (even he got a little mechanical at times) makes me think I am back listening to someone like a Beethoven improvising. It has the kind of imagination and emotion that according to reports, Beethoven brought to improvising. Friedrich Gulda, who was also a jazz pianist, once conducted and played Beethoven' s Emperor Concerto like a band leader, that is, something like Beethoven might have performed it, and it is a glorious performance (available on the web.)

Anyway, thanks guys for the all the great information. Learning on the job, like these musicians were doing, is definitely the best way to go.

I did use Mehegan for a while and thought the system was excellent. Don't know a thing about Baker/Aebersold but definitely couldn't ever think or hear in terms of modes if that is what it is. For me, the white keys from F-F in the key of C is a C major scale starting and ending on F, not the lydian mode. But maybe Mehegan does that too, I forget.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 22 Feb 2022, 15:47, edited 2 times in total.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
bophead
Posts: 51
Joined: 19 Feb 2022, 09:48

Re: Positioning Chord Symbols and Rehearsal Marks for Jazz

Post by bophead »

John Ruggero wrote: 22 Feb 2022, 14:16 As a side note, one of Lennie Tristano's students was the jazz teacher in my father's music school in Mt. Vernon NY. The name Mosca, just popped into my head. We had a set of 78s of Tristano, a trio I think, and I would listen to it in amazement because it sounded so strange. Mosca (or whoever) invited my parents to a Tristano concert. I'm ashamed to say that they left after a short while, not being in the avant-garde. Anyway, Mosca told us about the rigorous training his was undergoing. I have had some students go through this kind of thing with a Tristano (I think)-style jazz piano teacher here in NC. A lot of ear work, a lot of good technical training that most classical pianists don't get.
Might have been Sal Mosca

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Mosca

There is a docu on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFdE2a87DP0

And the Piano Teacher in NYC might be Dave Frank, who gives away a lot of wisdom on his YT channel (IIRC he said in one of his recent videos he moved out of town because of the high cost of living):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay6TsZkC54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fJGpQmozf8

Regarding Gulda, I heard a story of him playing playing free jazz with a naked female drummer at the “Klaviersommer” festival in Munich, must have been late eighties or so.
User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 2453
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Positioning Chord Symbols and Rehearsal Marks for Jazz

Post by John Ruggero »

That's him! Sal Mosca. I just found a couple of old pictures of him at the piano from the early 50s taken at my father's music school. I wish I could post them, but I guess there are privacy issues with that.

No, the jazz teacher I mentioned taught here in NC. Chapel Hill I think. Ed Paolantonio. Excellent pianist and teacher.

I love watching jazz pianists strictly from the technical point of view, since I am a piano teacher who specializes in helping people with their techniques. They generally have superior technique. Notice the very relaxed hands in the Mosca and the Frank.

Gulda was one of a kind. One of the very best interpreters of the Viennese classics and also played with nude drummers.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
Post Reply