Alignment with grace notes

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Hector Pascal
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Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Alignment with grace notes

Post by Hector Pascal »

In a piano piece, should the "r" of rallentando vertically line up with the first grace note or with the first main note?

Here are pictures illustrating my query:

A:
Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 4.01.07 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 4.01.07 pm.png (137.8 KiB) Viewed 2134 times
B:
Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 4.01.50 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 4.01.50 pm.png (127.84 KiB) Viewed 2134 times
Thanks as always!
Cheerio,
HP.
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David Ward
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Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by David Ward »

I would choose the first, but I don't know whether or not that is officially correct.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by John Ruggero »

You ask the interesting questions! In my experience, most musicians (including me) tend to guess at these things and don't even bother to check the literature.

You pointedly mentioned that this is a piano piece, but do suppose there were other instruments playing that didn't have initial grace notes? Would the rallentandos match or not? I assume then that standard practice would have them all match, so...

I'd do the second based also on the following logic: rallentando is a gradual process that mainly affects the beats that follow this first one, so it wouldn't really affect these graces notes. So there is no pressing reason to place the marking over the grace notes. If you had used a ritenuto, on the other hand, I am not so sure, but probably the standard practice would still be to put it over the first beat in all kinds of music. But of course, composers sometimes go their own way concerning subtleties like this.

By the way, I don't care for your placement of the triplet number off the staff, on the following basis: its bad enough that the triplet number is so far from the note heads in the current system of placing it on the beam side. To place it far from the beam itself makes it even more dissociated from the notes and not visually helpful. There was a recent thread on this.
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Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by Hector Pascal »

Hi,

Thanks for the replies which are very much appreciated!

I've had a chance to look around and I've found a band score example in Gould p.547 which shows a "rall." aligned with the main note (as opposed to snare drum grace notes). The logic you mention, John, seems to be in evidence here.

I've also managed to find a solo piano publication where "rall." is aligned with the first grace note (as opposed to the first main note).

The alignment is depended on the scoring, it would seem, or possibly "anything goes".

Thanks also for drawing to my attention the triplet number positioning. I will see what I can do about them :)

Cheerio and thanks,
Hector.
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Fred G. Unn
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Location: NYCish

Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by Fred G. Unn »

I know this isn't what you were asking about, but your ledger lines seem both a bit thin and a bit short IMO. I know Finale's default has barlines, ledger lines, stems, and staff lines all the same thickness (1.8 EVPUs), but traditionally both barlines and ledger lines are just a bit thicker than the staff lines. If your ledger lines extended just a tiny bit more past the note (Document Options/Lines and Curves), especially on the left side where there's hardly any line visible at all, I think that would increase legibility.
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by Hector Pascal »

Hi Fred,
Thanks for this suggestion about Finale line thicknesses. I have changed my thicknesses and lengths to these now (as an experiment):

(All stated in EVPU's)

Staff Line thickness: 2.40625

Barlines:
Heavy Line thickness: 12.09375
Thin line thickness: 5

Beams Thickness: 12

Ledger Lines thickness: 4.59375
Left Half-length: 7
Right Half-length: 7
What does "left half rest length" mean? Mine is set to 3 ?

Repeats: Heavy Line thickness: 12.09375
Thin line thickness: 5
Space between lines: 12

Stem thickness: 2.20312

Tuplet bracket thickness: 2.20312

I got my inspiration for the numbers by browsing these links (the first one was found by OCTO.)

1. https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/creati ... ne-widths/

2. viewtopic.php?t=55

Cheerio and thanks again,
Hector.
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by Fred G. Unn »

Hector Pascal wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 04:55 What does "left half rest length" mean? Mine is set to 3 ?
It's the length of the ledger line for a rest. It will be a factor when you have notes in layer 2, but a whole rest above the staff in layer 1 for example. I haven't revisited my Finale settings in a while, but I had mine set to 4 EVPUs.

I had forgotten about that other thread you linked to, and I had been active on it, LOL. I do think it's important to consider your output device when configuring your settings too. I found Finale's defaults way too thin for me when printing on a laser printer at 1200 dpi, so I thickened quite a few of them. I'd recommend looking at printed output too, and not just judging on screen, to make sure everything looks legible and correctly proportioned when placed on a music stand. You may even find that you require different settings for different printers.
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: Alignment with grace notes

Post by Hector Pascal »

Thanks again, Fred.
I print on laser at 1200 and I think I'm pretty happy with the above setting having tweaked them. I have noticed that thicknesses look slightly different while viewing a PDF, too, in Mac Preview compared to Adobe PDF Viewer. Adobe seems to show things very well.
Best,
Hector.
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