Simple 4/4 grouping poll

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
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David Ward
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Re: Simple 4/4 grouping poll

Post by David Ward »

I hope this is not getting too OT; but I think notation always depends to some extent on for whom it is intended.

I would not have notated the rhythm across two beats shown right at the top on the attached screenshot if I'd been writing for a symphony orchestra. I would have used the conventional ties whenever I was crossing a beat. However, this piece was written in the first instance for two very versatile musicians who seemed to appreciate seeing the figure ‘as a unit’.

This page can be heard here https://composers-uk.com/davidward/wp-c ... _1.mp3?_=6 at about 4 mins 30 secs as recorded at a live performance in 2010.

Here is some background (apologies for getting more and more OT, but it is an illustration of how and when things work well which might be time-wasting in different circumstances). One of the two performers is trombonist Emily White on trombone, alto sackbut, violin (! yes she plays that too) and a bit of percussion as well as singing and intoning the fragments of text. The other is violinist Steve Bingham who plays electric violin, electric bass violin with live loops, and briefly ordinary violin in duet with Emily, as well as a bit of percussion. The texts are fragments of e-mails Scottish artist Jane Frere http://janefrere.info/ sent me in 2007/8 when she was working with young Palestinians.

Anyway, my point is that notation can be flexible depending on circumstances. In this instance the circumstances were specific and unusual.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Simple 4/4 grouping poll

Post by John Ruggero »

If Mahler had tied quarter notes to eighth notes, the upbeat motive of three eighth notes that enters in m. 2 would have been obscured in ms. 3-4 and the music wouldn't have looked as "simple" as the melody is intended to sound.

I think you are right; the notation should fit the situation. In a case like the rhythm in your piece, I might have written it out with ties the first time only if the feeling of syncopation was subtle. If the syncopation was intended to be pronounced, then I would have written it out every time.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Simple 4/4 grouping poll

Post by John Ruggero »

It's curious that in the example from the Brahms Academic Festival Overture, to me the simpler form without the ties makes the underlying syncopation clearer. But in a case like your piece, breaking up the the eighth notes would bring out the syncopation. I guess it depends on the level of syncopation.
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OCTO
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Re: Simple 4/4 grouping poll

Post by OCTO »

Fred G. Unn wrote: 11 Apr 2022, 03:05
Ooof, it might be common in early music, but I don't think I can get on board with that one.
Agreed.

For the main question I would say both the 1st versions are "the most educative", but the 3rd versions the most exotic. I would say, "depends on music and style".
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