Flat beam question

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
Anders Hedelin
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by Anders Hedelin »

One point could be that not just experimenting with different approaches, but trying to get used to them, or even to like them could be beneficial in one way or other.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by John Ruggero »

Keeping an open mind is always good. But of course, that doesn't mean that one shouldn't have likes and dislikes.
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Anders Hedelin
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by Anders Hedelin »

By no means!

BTW I've found this, and the other forum truly educational. One tiny example: I was perfectly happy with the 8va and 8vb symbols until you pointed out that they were a creation by notation programs and had no substantiation in good old editions. So acceptance changed into rejection. And that's how it goes. All the time.
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Anders Hedelin
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by Anders Hedelin »

Still, I can easily switch between accepting flat beams in concave note movements, and sloping beams following the trend of the notes. It's like walking in and out of rooms - in some of them you have to wear a jacket and a tie, in others you can come in a baggy sweater. I appreciate both possibilities.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by John Ruggero »

Actually the 8va was used when the sign was new and composers were concerned about the symbol being understood. Then many publishers gradually eliminated the va as clutter mid-19th century after which the 8 alone became standard. Then the 8va was reintroduced in computer engraving programs. The 8vb was not used in the19th century to my knowledge and seems to be a purely 20th century addition. But I don't care for the additional symbols on purely logical grounds: they add no useful information.

I think that completely horizontal beams are just fine when the beamed group is static (for example the classic Alberti bass figure) or starts in one direction and finishes in the opposite. Otherwise I think it should have a direction that corresponds with the import of the music on the basis that there is no good reason why it shouldn't do that and that therefore the brain expects it and is slightly confused when it doesn't happen. But were all the beams flat I agree that, as you said, one would get used to it, since a correspondence between note and beam direction would no longer be expected. But a visually helpful aspect of music notation would be eliminated, which is not a good thing in my opinion.
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Anders Hedelin
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Joined: 16 Aug 2017, 16:36
Location: Sweden

Re: Flat beam question

Post by Anders Hedelin »

Good points, John. Actually my point about the beams was another, but since it's probably a bit idiosyncratic there's no point in repeating it.
Finale 26, 27 on Windows 10
Anders Hedelin
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by Anders Hedelin »

Just a thought about the 8va thing. I'm not sure having seen the 8va symbol in older editions (because I'm not that familiar with them), but then it must surely have been an abbreviation of ottava, not of ottava alta as in modern notation programs?
Gould uses 8va alta and 8va bassa in cues, a writing I've gladly adopted. Sometimes you have to think about where to place them because they are longer, but I wouldn't say they clutter very much.
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benwiggy
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Re: Flat beam question

Post by benwiggy »

Anders Hedelin wrote: 09 Jun 2022, 14:27 Just a thought about the 8va thing. I'm not sure having seen the 8va symbol in older editions (because I'm not that familiar with them), but then it must surely have been an abbreviation of ottava, not of ottava alta as in modern notation programs?
Abbreviations of this sort (usually in superscript) were very common in lots of languages -- in English, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Dr, Mr are the surviving remnants of that tradition.

While a single a or o (e.g. 8a or 8o) would be more usual, 8va would be familar to any Italian reader in any context as 'ottava'.
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