Notation program...

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
benwiggy
Posts: 404
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Notation program...

Post by benwiggy »

Because you are more adaptable than a mechanical tool.

People think in different ways. It's impossible for software to adapt to each user's ideas about how it should operate; and much easier for people to learn how to use the tool.

Like any application, it was designed and thought up by people ("how we think, understand"). Every software has to formally describe its concepts and methods. Each data object has properties and actions, and they interact to achieve the results we want.

I would argue that the human brain is not inherently logical. It can be taught to follow logic, certainly.

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Den
Posts: 129
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

Now I don't know what's going on here on the forum, I can't write or reply and I get a message:

The requested page could not be found "

Also on the "Full editor and preview"

?
Last edited by Den on 21 Aug 2020, 14:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Den
Posts: 129
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

1.If we try to apply the logic of thinking in software in the most optimized and simple way possible and not in a more complicated way, then we achieve approximate "intelligence and logic" of software with the logic of the mind! What happens in this case? If I DON'T WANT to have those breaks and I just want an "empty space", which Dorico writes himself before I ask him to do anything, then it's some totally different logic that I personally don't like. Especially since with a simple command to remove the same pause and leave me an identical space where I will work as I want, then this way there are a lot of problems. Not work!

benwiggy
Posts: 404
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Notation program...

Post by benwiggy »

Den wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 13:58
it's some totally different logic that I personally don't like.
That's the point. Everyone who has ever tried to write notation software has done it in entirely different ways. There is no Platonic ideal of ultimate logic in notation software. Just different choices.

Dorico handles rests the way it does because the team sat down and thought about all the possible ways that rests are used and that's what they came up with. No doubt there are other ways of doing the same thing. Some may be better for this particular circumstance, but as a result of catering to your need to delete or cut them, it is less good in some other aspect.

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Den
Posts: 129
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

Ben I understand you absolutely but sorry I don't think you caught the final point with me and what I thought until the end of the message I can't write and post, because here I was trying to answer all the time and something is wrong with the forum, I can't write a post normally , I keep getting the same message, so I don't know what it's about now, there weren't these technical problems before ... Look:
Capture+_2020-08-21-15-42-13~2.png
Capture+_2020-08-21-15-42-13~2.png (15.22 KiB) Viewed 316 times
If this goes well too ;-))) p.s. when it works we will continue the topic ...

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OCTO
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: Notation program...

Post by OCTO »

benwiggy wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 08:08
Secondly, you can't Cut or Delete rests, because by default rests exist where there are no notes. However, there is a menu command 'Remove Rests' under the Edit menu.
Can you remove rests in Dorico, something like "blank notation" staff style in Finale?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9+ /// MacOS Mojave, (side systems: Fedora 32, Windows 10)

benwiggy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Notation program...

Post by benwiggy »

Yes, you can use the Remove Rests command to remove all implicit rests. Of course, there are other ways to achieve particular results, for instance, there is a built-in method for creating manuscript paper.

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Den
Posts: 129
Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

OCTO wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 08:05
benwiggy wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 08:08
Secondly, you can't Cut or Delete rests, because by default rests exist where there are no notes. However, there is a menu command 'Remove Rests' under the Edit menu.
Can you remove rests in Dorico, something like "blank notation" staff style in Finale?
Dorico rest move.gif
Dorico rest move.gif (120.25 KiB) Viewed 272 times
You can do this, and then switch to Engrave mode to move the bar to where you want it.
After this, barline move to back *see gif ,
Not directly and practical, but..

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Den
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Joined: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14

Re: Notation program...

Post by Den »

I would like it to be possible to work more directly and easily in newer programs. Nothing less, nothing more, just direcly and simpler.
Take a look at an example from an older program, how you delete an object , in this case - rest and other object stays where it is.
Basically, in newer programs, a lot of things have somehow gone into "oblivion"..sadly
GMP delete rest.gif
GMP delete rest.gif (106.17 KiB) Viewed 268 times

benwiggy
Posts: 404
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Notation program...

Post by benwiggy »

But what's the point of removing that rest and moving the barline? Dorico is able to provide much more useful help by semantically understanding notation and providing contextually appropriate help, which other apps cannot do, because they provide no help at all, just let you type stuff in and move it around yourself.

Finale is brilliant for the 1% of cases where you want to do something unconventional, because doing something different is exactly the same amount of work as doing the conventional thing. Dorico is better for 99% of the time, when you want to do conventional notation, because it understands the conventions.

As I said possibly at the start of this thread: making one thing very easy or simple may make something else very difficult or awkward, so the UI design will have to a compromise on doing simple things very easily, to accommodate other cases.

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