Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

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John Ruggero
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Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by John Ruggero »

Times and Times New Roman text styles are going bonkers in the Shape Designer and Text Tool. Only Times Regular (which is marked as missing) is correct. Times italics through TNR bold italics are messed up. One example:
TNR Regular.png
TNR Regular.png (124.2 KiB) Viewed 2281 times

Is this a known issue with Finale 27 and Mac OS 12? The fonts are working correctly in MS Word and elsewhere.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
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David Ward
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by David Ward »

As I've just said in response your post on this subject on the Finale forum: I'm hoping to up-date everything, Mac hardware, OS and also Finale before too long, so I'll be interested to see what others may have to say about this.
Finale 25.5 & F 26.3.1
Mac OS 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
https://composers-uk.com/davidward/news-links/
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John Ruggero
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by John Ruggero »

Hi, David. I just did what you are thinking about doing, and it is working well. Much faster all around. This is the first problem I've encountered and one can work around it. But it is very strange issue and also strange that no else seems to have experienced it or wants to comment.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
benwiggy
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by benwiggy »

I seem the same behaviour, John, so it may be a bug.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by John Ruggero »

Thanks, Ben. I will report it to MM. My only concern is that text blocks and Shape Expressions that use the work-around may require font changes later if and when this is corrected.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
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John Ruggero
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by John Ruggero »

The solution from MakeMusic is to install the missing Times font. The following source was suggested and it worked:
https://www.freebestfonts.com/timr45w-f ... e_vignette
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
benwiggy
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by benwiggy »

That's not great support.

Firstly, even if Times is missing, it shouldn't cause a problem with selecting other fonts that are installed.

Secondly, recommending some random free font site, is not good practice, as those sites tend to be sketchy and of dubious legal status.

The font they've recommended is made by Hewlett Packard (presumably bundled with a printer in 1997), and contains 385 characters. Apple's Times font is made by Linotype for Apple and contains 1443 characters.

However, Apple does seem to be 'hiding' some of it own fonts that are installed, so that even though they are bundled with the system, most apps can't actually use them. Times now seems to be one of these.

Apple's Times is a .ttc "Collection" font, which means that all four styles are bundled into one file. Copying the file to /Library/Fonts from /System/Library/Fonts won't work, but iIt is possible to use a font editor to open the collection and save each style as a separate .ttf, in which case the fonts will be enabled and available when placed in the Font folder.
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David Ward
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by David Ward »

benwiggy wrote: 08 Aug 2022, 11:00 … … …However, Apple does seem to be 'hiding' some of it own fonts that are installed, so that even though they are bundled with the system, most apps can't actually use them. Times now seems to be one of these.

Apple's Times is a .ttc "Collection" font, which means that all four styles are bundled into one file. Copying the file to /Library/Fonts from /System/Library/Fonts won't work, but iIt is possible to use a font editor to open the collection and save each style as a separate .ttf, in which case the fonts will be enabled and available when placed in the Font folder.
I never use Times New Roman intentionally, but Times is my standard font for most things. Does this mean than if (when) I up-date the OS I will have general bother with Times?

I've no idea how to use a ‘font editor’ and don't think I want to know. At 81 years old I'm still open to learning interesting new things, but have learnt to be selective and careful with my time. Faffing with what should be avoidable computer problems is something I'd rather avoid.
Finale 25.5 & F 26.3.1
Mac OS 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
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benwiggy
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Re: Finale 27 Fonts going bonkers

Post by benwiggy »

An Apple Support document shows that these fonts are still available for documents that already use them; so existing documents should be fine, but you can't use them in new documents.

A quick test of a Finale 2009 file on El Capitan creates a file with text in Times (also Athelas, Courier and Marion), which opens in Finale 27, preserving the correct fonts -- but the font selection is completely 'out of whack' from Athelas onwards.

There are no problems with font selection in, say, Pages.
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