Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

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John Ruggero
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Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by John Ruggero »

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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by Fred G. Unn »

That's a cool find! I was curious how some various editors handled this bit:

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John Ruggero
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by John Ruggero »

Fascinating notation. Two simultaneous sets of centered beams.

As far as I can see, the quality of the editing and engraving falls off with each successive version. Aside from the beaming, which I think is best as Scriabin drew it, look at the note spacing in the last two versions. Ugh. And there is a missing accidental in the last version. E natural in the tenor part last measure. And the cautionary high A natural is missing in the previous measure. And the hairpin at the end applies to the tenor part and should presumably be placed below that voice, not between the staves.
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by Fred G. Unn »

John Ruggero wrote:
16 Feb 2022, 15:43
Aside from the beaming, which I think is best as Scriabin drew it
Errors notwithstanding, I think I prefer the beaming in the bottom version. Crossing the centered beams in the middle of a beam rather than through a stem looks confusing to me and it's not immediately clear what beam the tuplet number is referring to. It would make for an interesting engraving challenge anyway.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by John Ruggero »

Why not:
Scriabin 7.jpeg
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by Fred G. Unn »

Yeah, that's probably even more clear. Just for "fun" I decided to give it a go in Dorico, to see how tricky it would actually be.
Image

I used p instead of pp since that's what I see in the manuscript, although he certainly could have changed that in the editing/proofing stage. The slur in the third group in the manuscript doesn't actually extend to all the notes, although it's probably safe to assume that's what he meant.

I'm also realizing that I find Dorico's cautionary parentheses a bit heavy handed. I'd love to substitute a thinner, more elegant glyph, but haven't figured out a way to do that yet or if it's even possible.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by John Ruggero »

I think Scriabin used centered beams because it seems to differentiate which hand plays the small notes better.

While you and Dorico did a fine job, I find the parallel simultaneous beams a little discombobulating and continue to prefer the original. One could use a smaller size font for the cautionary accidentals, as in the first engraved example. It's not at all uncommon.
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

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Fred G. Unn wrote:
17 Feb 2022, 16:04
I'm also realizing that I find Dorico's cautionary parentheses a bit heavy handed. I'd love to substitute a thinner, more elegant glyph, but haven't figured out a way to do that yet or if it's even possible.
IMO the square brackets look better.
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benwiggy
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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by benwiggy »

Fred G. Unn wrote:
17 Feb 2022, 16:04
I'm also realizing that I find Dorico's cautionary parentheses a bit heavy handed. I'd love to substitute a thinner, more elegant glyph, but haven't figured out a way to do that yet or if it's even possible.
You mean like this? ;)
Screenshot 1.png
Screenshot 1.png (35.13 KiB) Viewed 2126 times
Sadly, accidental brackets and parentheses aren't in the Music Symbols editor, nor in the Tonality Editor with the accidentals. You have to use a different music font.

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Re: Autograph of Scriabin's Sonata no. 7

Post by JoshNichols »

At this point, I've always wondered what EXACTLY is the purpose of the parenthesis. I mean, in a certain sense, it is semantically complex... it draws attention to the fact that this bit of information is parenthetical - not necessary to the expression itself - but paradoxically it expresses something very important and worth expressing. But, if it is worth expressing, why put a parenthesis around it?

I know the typical argument is: "Well, the parenthesis expresses that this note is already "x" but not in a new way as to make the player second guess the note from before, wondering if that was right." Although, I've never known someone to actually go through that through process in the moment of reading a piece. I've sometimes seen that view taken with new music, where every note is scrutinized, but at that level it's not a question of legibility or logic but rather of a specious second guessing of the music because it is unfamiliar.

I'm obviously not talking about editorial or special editions where we are drawing attention to edits made posthumously that otherwise didn't reflect in the original manuscripts.

What say you all? If this is too much of an aside, let me know.
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