Two November 2 issues

Music notation symbols, fonts, font sources and font creation, SmuFL.
Post Reply
Harpsichordmaker
Posts: 49
Joined: 10 Apr 2016, 08:19

Two November 2 issues

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

I have two issues with November 2. I'll put here just one as it seems a design issue (but may be a software issue, I don't know). The other one is software-related and I'll write in another forum.

So, due to the somewhat large tail of the 8th, the dot of a dotted 8th crashes against the tail provided that: 1. the note is on a line of the staff; 2. the stem is up.

What could I do? I assume I should do something. I'd love to use that font as this is for a publication. Please look at the picture.

Is it a font issue? is it a software issue?

I am using Sibelius Ultimate on Mac. I am aware November 2 has issues with Sibelius on WIndows (due to a Sibelius bug, so the November 2 documentation says), but on mac it should be fine.

Screenshot 2022-12-10 alle 19.16.26.png
Screenshot 2022-12-10 alle 19.16.26.png (199.54 KiB) Viewed 2042 times
User avatar
OCTO
Posts: 1653
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by OCTO »

Is it possible to move the dot as a setting in Sib? Try 1sp from the notehead, or 0.5sp from the notehead.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2020.12• MuseScore 3 • Logic Pro X+ • Ableton Live 10+ • Digital Performer 9 /// MacOS Mojave (secondary in use systems: Fedora 35, Windows 10)
Harpsichordmaker
Posts: 49
Joined: 10 Apr 2016, 08:19

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

Yes in Sibelius it's possible to set the dot's distance from the notehead, both on a global and individual basis. I was just wondering why this issue is not handled automatically.
As I don't like the dot to be too far from the notehead, I'd get a double approach: 1. lightly move the dot on the right; 2. lenghten the stem so the curve of the tail doesn't hit the dot. Here is it the result: what do you think?
Immagine 2022-12-13 135418.png
Immagine 2022-12-13 135418.png (20.64 KiB) Viewed 1960 times
MichelRE
Posts: 123
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by MichelRE »

in your images it gives me the distinct impression that the dot is too high up in the space, too close to the upper staff line.
could this be a minor defect in the font?
Harpsichordmaker
Posts: 49
Joined: 10 Apr 2016, 08:19

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

MichelRE wrote: 13 Dec 2022, 14:37 in your images it gives me the distinct impression that the dot is too high up in the space, too close to the upper staff line.
could this be a minor defect in the font?
What a sharp eye, Michael!
I never noticed this but it's just as you say: the augmentation dots are too high in the space.
Screenshot 2022-12-14 alle 16.33.12.png
Screenshot 2022-12-14 alle 16.33.12.png (65.13 KiB) Viewed 1906 times
Screenshot 2022-12-14 alle 16.36.05.png
Screenshot 2022-12-14 alle 16.36.05.png (26.96 KiB) Viewed 1906 times
Maybe this could be enough to cause the crash with the tails.
MichelRE
Posts: 123
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by MichelRE »

I think there's a bit of "illusion" that's causing that clash.
the fact the dot is too close to the line, the tail ending very near the dot, it tends to force the eye to close up and darken that space.
I honestly believe that if the dot were lower, there'd be a tiny bit more white space, and most likely JUST enough to remove this illusory effect and avoid it looking like a clash.
User avatar
tisimst
Posts: 411
Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 17:57
Location: UT, USA
Contact:

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by tisimst »

Actually, the flag crosses all the way through the dot where it is currently positioned. Look very close.

FWIW, you can adjust the symbol position in the symbol editor, but that’s not really the ideal solution.
Music Typeface Designer & Engraver - LilyPond | Sibelius | Finale | MuseScore | Dorico | SMuFL | Inkscape | FontForge
NorFonts
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Jan 2021, 18:55

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by NorFonts »

Somehow the dot glyph is not centered:

It should be centered in the font itself in order to be centered in the space.
Attachments
CleanShot 2022-12-21 at 14.08.48@2x.png
CleanShot 2022-12-21 at 14.08.48@2x.png (473.04 KiB) Viewed 1730 times
Nor Eddine Bahha
https://norfonts.ma
Jazz pianist, composer/arranger, author and Type Designer
JAZZOLOGY Book: https://www.halleonard.com/product/311167/jazzology
Harpsichordmaker
Posts: 49
Joined: 10 Apr 2016, 08:19

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by Harpsichordmaker »

NorFonts wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 13:12 Somehow the dot glyph is not centered:

It should be centered in the font itself in order to be centered in the space.
Hi NorFonts, that’s what I was thinking too. Then I noticed that if I only changed the music font without loading the whole November house style (which the font installer installs as well), then the dot was centered. After a bit of study I found it was an error in the house style file which has a wrong height positioning of the dot symbol.
Adjusted that in the Symbols properties window, saved the house style and everything is ok. Maybe I should tell the author so he can fix the house style value for the dot symbol.

Thanks all.
NorFonts
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Jan 2021, 18:55

Re: Two November 2 issues

Post by NorFonts »

Oh! I might be wrong, actually Sibelius should use the augmentation dot found within the font itself, see below: (which seems to be centered)
CleanShot 2022-12-24 at 12.52.28@2x.png
CleanShot 2022-12-24 at 12.52.28@2x.png (340.24 KiB) Viewed 1606 times
While the screenshot I posted here:

NorFonts wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 13:12 Somehow the dot glyph is not centered:

It should be centered in the font itself in order to be centered in the space.
is actually for the Staccato above, and that's why it looks not centered, please select "augmentation dot" in the Sibelius symbols to get the dot entered.
CleanShot 2022-12-24 at 12.52.12@2x.png
CleanShot 2022-12-24 at 12.52.12@2x.png (126.87 KiB) Viewed 1606 times
Nor Eddine Bahha
https://norfonts.ma
Jazz pianist, composer/arranger, author and Type Designer
JAZZOLOGY Book: https://www.halleonard.com/product/311167/jazzology
Post Reply